TKF Web Site
...is down today. Not sure if its dead or just "under construction".

It was down a couple of days ago too.

the site is not down, temple kung fu is closed. the relentless slagging and the mistakes of the previous owners has made it an unmarketable enterprise. mr. swanstrom put alot of his own money and effort into trying to revive temple kung fu to what it should have been, it is unfortunate to see this end so. it is easy to be against something it's a lot harder to be for something. i was a student who was constantly milked, i also was an instructor who worked his ass off for peanuts($800/month/50+hrs/wk)and my cheif didn't get much better. for a number of years after i left i was nothing but bitter against them. it was on zen shack that i first saw there open letter and they said if you had questions, call, so i did , the disscusions that followed were positive and encouraging, and when i was in edmonton i met with mr. swanstrom face to face. the studios looked great the format was up front with nothing hidden it gave me closure on the past and a healthy respect for what they were attempting. the name temple kung fu has been drug through the mud enough to scrutinize over there web site and any images that they posted seems ridiculous its almost if some of you are hoping to catch glimpses of what your afraid your missing techniques that never were revealed to you, pia hu shih stuff that secretly your jealous yuo were never part of and some of your posted videos, i mean thats the pot calling the kettle black but judge not lest ye be judged. anyways i hope all who slagged and cursed temple kung fu are happy, the name is now dead, but you never hurt GMS, or webber or peircy, or jones or sparrow or who ever you had your beef with you've only destroyed some ones buisness venture some one who like you loved the art loved moh kempo and only wanted to make a place for others likeminded to train, this is not a victory for ex tkf'rs its a sad end to a glorious art

this is not a victory for ex tkf'rs its a sad end to a glorious art I would not say that the art is dead, just look at the hard work by members such as grasshopper, mystery and sifu shawn, also look at the list of other schools that teach moh kempo. Temple kung fu might be dead but the art lives on. thanks swollenknuck

Hello Shannon Harrington, I’d have to agree with Swollenknuc on this one. Look at the facts, for just a minute. There is a list of Masters of kung fu, all of whom got their training in Moh. Master Margitte Hilbig, Master Trevor Higgs and Master Ed Bruneau are but three. The list could go on for a long time. There are all the people who still train in Moh, even if they don’t train at “Temple”. And there are all the people who have gone out of business teaching Moh. Many of these have come back to try again. On a slightly different tact: How many businesses do you know that have been around for thirty years? And how many of those are businesses that make less than a million a year? I once read somewhere some very interesting statistics. Something like 10 % of all businesses succeeds within the first year. Of those, about 10% live past the five year mark. And so on. You might think that there are many of us who get a chuckle of Mr. Swanstrom’s plight. You’d be wrong there for many reasons but I’ll give you just one solid one. I speak here as the former President of Simon Kung Fu Studios Inc. I’d say that Mr. Swanstrom has joined our ranks at this forum whether he likes it or not. He started as a student of Moh and then he was an instructor and finally an owner. His history with Moh isn’t so different from many of us. I would hope that Mr. Swanstrom and his people would find it in them to try again. I would hope that they would take solace from the knowledge that they are not alone. As a final note: Easy or hard, life moves on and so must we all. But is Moh Kempo dead? In the words of the Duke, “Not Hardly!” Regards, MrE2Me2 Without prejudice E&OE

Freeee-owwww
Sparked a hot one by accident here!

Hi, Everyone. The rumors of Moh death have been somewhat exaggerated. :-) Thank you for your support Shannon Harrington, MrE2Me2. As Mr. Harrington has said, the Temple Kung Fu Studios have closed, but it is not the end for the Art, not by a long shot. We are still together, we are still training, we are still teaching, learning, and having fun, both Moh Pai and Pai Hu Shih members alike. And as swollenknuck and MrE2Me2 have pointed out, we are not alone training the style. The decision was made to let go of the studios and TKF name and turn over to a new leaf. As sad as it was to bid farewell to the beautiful new studios so many of us worked so hard to help set up, we can now train without the overhead of full time, professional, 4000+ sq ft prime locations staffed 50+ hours a week. We no longer have to fight the old TKF reputation that we did not create, and we no longer need to worry about how many new students we attract. It also significantly reduces the cost of training which was necessary to support the studios, and though certainly not the highest out there and well worth it for the amount and quality of instruction provided, it could not be justified by everyone. Mr. Swanstrom has done an amazing job in Edmonton setting up what was probably the most stunning facility TKF has ever operated, with the consistent level of instruction I can't remember in my years of training. Mr. Crossman & co. has done the same for Calgary. Both studios have run with honor, openness, and integrity. Both of those individuals committed much of their life savings and two years of their life to something they loved and believed in, still do. Both of them can be proud of what they have accomplished. The TKF of the last year and a half was a far cry in so many ways from the years before. It was a good (and needed) closure to the trade-name that has known its share of ups and downs. Regardless of the fact or myth debate surrounding GMS's history, it's hard to dispute his skill and the effectiveness of his system. It may not have always been taught right or by people who were qualified to teach, nevertheless over the years TKF/SKS has produced some amazingly skilled individuals and masters. The Moh system is certainly not dead, nor do I think it is in imminent danger. Too many people know, practice, and teach it in one way or the other. And the Last of TKF Mohicans are still around, and plan to be. :wink: It is amazing how much more it is about what and who you train with, not where and when. The closure of the studio seems to have brought the members closer together on an adventure to explore alternative ways and places of training, to define and work toward a new vision. We may not have our "own" full time studio anymore, but the instruction is as high as ever, we still see and work with the same people, learn, have fun, and are proud of the system we train.

Moh Kempo
I trained at TKF in the mid 90's for about 3 months and every class was stressfull in thinking of excuses why I couldn't join the KFC, buy some books, buy new uniforms etc. There was not one pvt training session where I was not trying to be sold something. I do feel bad for the current owners because no one deserves to lose their lively hood when they have expended hard work and determination to change the mistakes that were done in the past. My opinion is this and take it for what its worth (anecdote: Opions are like a$$hole$....everybody's got one). Lose the TKF branding, start fresh with Kempo, maybe even lose the Moh. You guys don't need to be affiliated with Simon, look at the some of people who have done well without him; Panther's Gym, Sifu Shawn, and Robin's KISAE as examples. Lose the Fu Yen bit and the cotton uniforms. I think most people that got burned by TKF in the past have spread the word about the controversial lineage, and have spread the word about the court case, and this is will always identified with the TKF branding and uniforms. I think greed is why Simon went to the kung fu route leaving the Simon Karate behind, but in this day and age there are a number of schools teaching traditional chinese martial arts with a verifiable lineage with an open door approach and it is easy to see the differnce between a traditional style and Simon's kempo. We're all human, we all make mistakes, but the key is to learn from past. I know it was not my intention for these guys to lose their lively hood, and I think (with exception of a few immature ass's) that all what was wanted was an end to the delusional lineage and complete honesty. It seems that while the new owners had nothing but good honest business intentions, the fact that they continued with the same controversial TKF history made it hard to gain respect. Just my opinion.

Thanks for then update. You posted, “Regardless of the fact or myth debate surrounding GMS's history, it's hard to dispute his skill and the effectiveness of his system.” You also posted, “The Moh system is certainly not dead, nor do I think it is in imminent danger. Too many people know, practice, and teach it in one way or the other.” True enough (in my opinion). Hello Pak Sau, You posted, “…in this day and age there are a number of schools teaching traditional chinese martial arts with a verifiable lineage with an open door approach and it is easy to see the differnce between a traditional style and Simon's kempo.” Also true enough (again, in my opinion). You also posted, “I do feel bad for the current owners because no one deserves to lose their lively hood when they have expended hard work and determination to change the mistakes that were done in the past.” Been there and done that too, so I echo your thoughts here. Regards, MrE2Me2 Without prejudice E&OE

That is infortunate (The ultimate closing of the NEW TKF Studios), as I personally hoped they could revive the franchise. As much as I hated the lies, tactics and manipulation that I witnesed from head office, I always loved the system... ... anyways i hope all who slagged and cursed temple kung fu are happy, the name is now dead, but you never hurt GMS, or webber or peircy, or jones or sparrow or who ever you had your beef with you've only destroyed some ones buisness venture some one who like you loved the art loved moh kempo and only wanted to make a place for others likeminded to train, this is not a victory for ex tkf'rs its a sad end to a glorious art Shannon, you are wrong about no-one being hurt by the slagging of TKF from the internet. I may have misunderstood your point but almost everyone you mentioned has suffered greatly from the demise of their respecive studios... Im happy to hear from our newest meber "92", and hope that they succeed in keeping the art alive for themselves. Changing the name of the school and getting rid of the overhead is the only logical way for the TKF Moh Kempo/ Pai Hu Shih system & style to survive. I would keep the names Moh Kempo & Pai Hu Shih because that is what it is. Acknowledge that it comes from Simon, no-one denies his skill, and tell the truth about where he learned from and what happened between Simon and his past Masters. I would talk as little about him as possible myself and just focus on the training. Also I think it is imperative for any x-TKF teacher/owner who wants to continue teaching that you learn from other styles (unless they trained another style previously to TKF), and incorporate that into the Moh, it will give it (THE STYLE) & YOU the TEACHER more credibility (IMO) considering how bad it has been trashed. All the Best to Masters Parnell, Swanstrom & Crossman, I wish them and EVERY past student/owner of TKF well...

i seem to have been mis understood .what i'm trying to convey is that the mud slinging about tkf has only hurt the currnt owners not kffl or any of the other former instructors or owners. i agree that moh kempo will go on but it is only part of the system and it is supposed to but the foundation for pia hu shih, but i am not pia hu shih so i don't want to speculate i am only relaying it as it was explained to me from a very reliable source. just like religions as the art moves from it's source it either grows and improves or it degenerates. with out the links or keys such as pia hu shih or with out the guidance of a master it will only degenerate. this site has like wise changed, what was the brainchild of mr. charlton seems to have degenerated into a platform for some other users agendas. i have no one to train the moh system with here and have no ralistic chance of ever completeing the system by training pai hu shih, i have began training under dante solomon alambra who is a 10th degree black belt in arnis,10th degree sikkaran, and 10th degree bato. these are phillapino fighting arts and have many movements similar to kempo. my master is 57 years old and he learned his art from his father, his grandfather, and the other masters around his village. he is not concerned with retraining me he is taking what i already have and grafting his system in with it. but when i'm done it will not be moh with arnis but will be something new and individual. no matter if you were president of simon kung fu or if you were area supervisor or you were just an instructor since coffe break these are only words and titles and are an old story, i don't care what you were in the past what you are now is what counts. i only started posting on this site to try and give a positive balance to much fo the negative anti tkf opinions. the change i hope to make is a positive one. mr. swanstrom is diffrent from many of us he has held true to his convictions regardless of the discovery transcript and many other contradictions he has stayed true to what he believes and to the master he trains under. we have left temple kung fu, broken from our old master and yet still refer to old titles and positions for validity. passive agressive angles such as criticize, and critique really show some individuals are very needy. i used to like this site now it seems more like the kisae kempo forms than the moh kempo forms and i willingly paid 3500$+for my program didn't regret it and would do it again. nothing of your videos would convince me to bother with a 2 week free trial, i wouldn't be so critical if you weren't always so critical i do enjoy some of the other post such as shawns and christian did a nice job on the kempo one but no one htat has posted a video is the be all or end all on any point of veiw no matter what title they held in the 70's 80's or 90's. the system that whas invented by the founder will only truely be carried on by those who are connected to the source , since that is an impossibility for me i have chosen to entrust myself to another master. i has been a bumpy but exciting ride i don't wish to come down hard or negative on anyone the only fight we truely have is with ourselves, may we all struggle and emergre. i've wasted to much time in front of a key board if you wish to pick this reply apart line by line then go ahead talk and idleness have much in common.

A few problems I might note as well as suggestions (Based purely on my own experiences "still" running a school and of course my personal opinion): Location. Opening up right beside Calgary Trail and so close to Whyte Ave must have had rediculous rent payments. The demand to get new students in to maintain a location of that magnitude was a huge gamble. Name/style. The name Temple Kung Fu DOES have negative reviews in the MA community. Honestly Swanstrom might want to consider sueing the owner of Rising Sun Martial Arts supply. Go in there one day dressed casual and ask him anything at all about TKF and he will convince you not to train there. This is 1 of 2 MA supply stores in Edmonton and the larger and older of the 2. I am honest with my students and tell them that I used to teach for TKF and "I" have run into problems because of this individual. I have had students come to me and say, "I mentioned to Mike that you used to teach for TKF and he warned me I shouldn't train with you and should stay away from anything related to TKF." Also the number of ex-students out there is enormous. People who are considering training tend to ask for advice from friends or friends of friends who train before shelling out money. Anyone inquiring about TKF would not get a positive review 9 times out of 10. Internet? Google TKF and you will find only slander. This we all know. Here is what I would do if I was still based solely in that system and in the current situation Swanstrom finds himself in. I hope someone might direct him to this thread so he can perhaps consider this advice. Start over. Get a location that is closer to the urban population with a hugely reduced rent and size. Changerooms can be modest. Showers are not truly required. Start small and work your way up, don't start big and fight to maintain it. Don't use the name "Temple Kung Fu." Consider this, you could call your school something like: "Edmonton Pai Hu Shih Kung Fu Academy" and make PHS a primary part of what is taught rather than a seperate style a student has to work towards. If it is true that there are thousands of ex-TKF students jeleous that they never got to learn the sacred PHS techniques and thus they spread bad propaganda then it should also be true that if you were teaching PHS openly you would have many of these ex-students coming to pay you to finally complete their training. The art is not about sacred knowledge anymore. It is a combat/fitness regime with competition in the form of many styles from many countries. If people want to be dangerous they need only buy a gun, or a hammer or a knife. You are competing in a business market and you have to offer a product that people want. If you were waxing peoples tires on their cars it wouldn't matter how big and beautiful the location was or how hard you worked. It only matters that people want their car waxed, not their tires. Take advantage of the fact that there are so many people out there that want to learn PHS and would pay for it. Make your money and build your business and because PHS is indeed an effective style you can be proud of the product you present. Moh Kempo sadly is just not enough anymore. Go to a Karate school and check out what they teach. They teach Japanese culture and even some Japanese language as well as Karate. The martial arts aspect just wasn't enough to keep that style alive. When I left TKF one of the very first things I did was seek out old friends to learn the PHS that I was missing. Ex-students and even instructors "want" that style. There is your product. Best luck to you.

Hi Shannon, FYI - I generally use the quotes so people know what I am responding to. IMO (In My Opinion), EVERYONE associated with TKF has been hurt by the mudslinging on the internet, not just the latest owners. Every past owner/ teacher at TKF has forever to deal with the stigma that has been generated by all the anger directed at O. E. Simon and his TKF studios. (It is his name on the door, right?). However before this happened, there where many people that were hurt by TKF itself. I am talking about the misinformation & mistreatment directed towards and purpetuated by the owners & instructors (Myself included), yadda-yadda (Wait... I yadda-yadda'd the best part :wink: ). I feel bad for the new owners, but no more than I feel bad for the past owners you mentioned, others too. As for your referances to my "brainchild" , I am not sure what agendas you feel are being promoted here, but I can assure you there are none other than the honest discussions on Moh Kempo/ Pai hu Shih and MA in general. If more people posted here more often, perhaps it wouldn't feel so one-sided. I just don't think many people either care, or want to talk about this subject. The fact that one person posts here as much as everyone else combined does not mean they have taken over this forum. It just reflects their passion for the subject and that they mayhave more spare time than others.

Hello Shannon Harrington, You posted, “this site has like wise changed, what was the brainchild of mr. charlton seems to have degenerated into a platform for some other users agendas.” I wouldn't say that, rather, I think of it in this manner. Thanks to Grasshopper’s guidance and the support of forum members like Sifu Sean, Sifu Sblano, North and others it continues to grow at a rate of more than 200 views a day! You posted,” i have began training under dante solomon alambra…” I personally, am very pleased that you have continued your training (and no sarcasm). You posted, “i only started posting on this site to try and give a positive balance to much fo the negative anti tkf opinions.” With all due respect; There are a lot of the anti Simon crowd who view this forum as pro Simon. I would say that this forum is pro Moh Kempo and I am pro Moh, too. You posted,”… if you wish to pick this reply apart line by line then go ahead talk…” Thank you, I believe I will. :-D (As Grasshopper pointed out; Right now I have more free time on my hands than at some times. Therefore, I post here a lot more than when I don't have that time.) Regards, MrE2Me2 Without prejudice E&OE