Temple Motions
Here Is a question, I am curious if the names of the first 18 temple motions as I them are the same as you guys. 1. Calming the Ocean ( aka temple motion #1) 2.Holding the branch 3. Lifting the branch 4. Dividing the storm 5. False Crane 6. Turning the Shield 7. Left Pointing arrow 8. Twisted Willow 9. Sleeping Hammer 10. Holding the wind 11. Pushing the mountain 12. Sweeping crane 13. Holding the shield 14. the Gentle swans 15. Breaking the branch 16. The Poisonous Snakes 17. The Turning Scissors 18. The False Talon Now apparently there are " sub-sets ", for practical application that shoot of from each one of these Motions. I will post one and let me know what you think. This is a sub set technique from temple motion #1 From neutral. As my opponent executes a right lunge punch, I step into a left cat and perform a "double block" ( called a wiping block in some styles/ it is basically a reinforced palm block, it is however the motion from this first temple motion) opening my opponent up, as he fires a left hook punch, I block using a floating block, then I step into a left bow and strike with a left inverted fist to the face. sifu shawn

Hello Sifu Shawn, Those are the Temple Motions as I remember them. I liked your application. It was neat, workable and quick. I have a couple of my own to add. Master McAndrews once said, “An opponents multiple punches were the roaring ocean”. First Application I’m in a left cat with my arms low, ready to “Calm the Ocean”. My opponent advances to a left bow and fires a right punch to my face. I block his punch to my open side and counter kick to his groin. Calming the Ocean Throw I’m in a left cat with my arms low, ready to “Calm the Ocean”. My opponent advances to a left bow and fires a right punch to my face. I block his punch and he punches with his left hand for my solar plexus. My second block is a double block against this. I follow with a left palmheel strike to the nose. Then I step forward and execute a neck break. And finally I finish with a single leg takedown (kung fu style, of course). The second double block can be done 2 ways. #1. Left crossdownward palm block / right crossdownward palm check #2 Left crossdownward forearm block / right downward foot block (#2 should result in a broken wrist for the attacker.)

Mr e2me2, Awesome. I love the calming the ocean throw. very nice technique. heres a couple more. #1 Opponent throws the right lunge punch, I block using the double block,(cat stance of course), as his left reverse punch comes in low ,I do a downward cross block then as I step into a left bow I use an upward cross block ( only this time it is a strike) under his chin, torquing on impact, snapping his head back. #2 opponent throws the right lunge punch, I double block ( cat stance again, making sure my left foot is just inside his right foot in order to disrupt his balance later in the technique), then as he throws the left hook I use a floating block. I then use a left knife hand strike to the side of his neck. Right punch to the body, left palm strike to the face. I then sweep outwards with my left foot( possibly slapping him in the right ear with my left hand to help offset his balance even more) and finally finish him off with a back fist. take care mr e2me2 sifu shawn

Hello Sifu Shawn, I like your techniques too. Yet you posted, “I then sweep outwards with my left foot.” I can’t do that; my back won’t allow it (scar tissue). I once saw Olaf perform a spectacular wrist lock out of Calming the Ocean. It was fast and he had the puncher completely helpless. Are you familiar with the knife defenses out of Raising the Branch? The first one. 1. The attacker steps in with an overhand stab with the knife in an ice pick grip. 2. The defender advances from neutral to a left bow and Raises the Branch. 3. The defender catches, traps and redirects the overhand stab into the attacker. The second one. 1. The attacker thrusts with his right hand at the defenders throat. 2. The defender leans back in a bow and Raises the Branch. 3. The defender catches, traps and locks the elbow of the attacker. Regards, MrE2Me2

"I am curious if the names of the first 18 temple motions as I them are the same as you guys." Yep, except that 17 & 18 should be switched ("False Talon" goes before "Turning Scissors"). Is that a typo, or was the sequence taught that way back then?

"Then I step forward and execute a neck break. And finally I finish with a single leg takedown (kung fu style, of course)." LOL, boy you're impatient, if you just wait a second after breaking the guy's neck, he'll fall down by himself! :D

Hello Vortexx, You posted about me being impatient. Well ya know! He might fall forward and give me dead person cooties. Seriously I believe the point was to have a time and place to practice the throw. The art I learned was primarily a non grappling art. There were few places to practice throws. This was merely one of them. About the sequence, I was taught that "False Talons" was #17 and "Turning Scissors" was #18. Yet when I went to Vancouver, the instructors disagreed on which was which. Moreover, Mr. MacLaren maintained that #16 "Poisonus Snakes" was done with a different angled step than Mr. Thomas. I ended up with several versions of each. I simply considered them stylistic differences. Regards, MrE2Me2

Vortexx , nice to hear from you. that was the way it was taught back then. There is actually a website www.masterfiedler.com , and he also trained at simons during the 1970's. unfortunatly a lot of his kempo stuff he has taken off of there. but he had the temple motions listed on there at one time. And they were the same as i them written there. you actually had me wondering and i went and checked my notes and thats the way I have written down. That does not neccesarily mean you are wrong either. It may have been changed over time, deliberatley or by mistake. If thats the way you were taught, thats cool. to me thats what this forum is for. A research tool. to see the similiraities and differences in the way we were all taught the system by different teachers at different times. Theh fact that a couple of the motions were taught in a different order is really not that big of a deal. It is but it isn't, if ya know what i mean. The names are all the same so thats a bonus. imagine if those were all different to???????yikes. mre2me2(mystery to me too) very clever with the name game there. i like it. I like the knife defence scenarios i was taught those in a very similar fashion. it is nice that kempo has a few knife defenses in it but having added filipino arts to my arsenal in the last few years made me realize how very limited kempo is in the knife defense area. there are techniques in kali very similar to the kempo knife defenses (so I am not running our kempo down) its just that kempo only takes it so far, kali takes it a lot further, in the sense of weapon removal, body control, blade awareness that kind of thing. sifu shawn

This might open a few eyes... I have it on good authority that these are the names of Temple Motions 19 - 36. I have never seen them nor heard their names until I was given this... 1. Heaven to Earth 2. Pulling the cart 3. Kneeling 1 4. Twisting Shield 5. Spear Leg Drop 6. Double Tiger Tail 7. Reverse Scissor 8. Right Kneeling Bridge 9. High Back Stance (On Guard) 10. Cat Right Willow Leap Palm 11. Crossing the Bridge (Cross Step) 12. Swinging Inverted Hammer 13. Butterfly (Forward) 14. Lifting Anvil Blow 15. Closed Bridge Leg Thrust (Open X FWD) 16. Arched Horse Kick (Open X) 17. Reverse Mantis Wings 18. Raising the falling Willow Leaf Palm The person who gave this info to me has not seen the motions either, they come from a very early set of knowledge sheets from the 1960's/70's "Simon Karate/ Simon Kung Fu" days.

Grasshopper, i had to look around in my archives to and yes that is what I have as well (mine actually for #1 says heaven and earth movement as opposed to just heaven and earth) for the next set of temple motions. I however have never seen them done. I only know 1 - 18 it is on the old kempo 1st degree black belt program sheet. There is also a section to do with the sword in there. I have a question I am looking at the sheet as I type: THE TRUTHFUL COMBINATIONS 1-18 What is this???????????? Do you know? Just curious. shawn

Hi Sifu Shawn, I know them as they are posted at the top of this thread, with the False Talen & Turning Scissor reversed. Not sure if that is the true combination or not? it's the way TKF did it the 11 years I was there. It has been suggested to me that most of the stances in this form as we know it have been changed (by Simon?) to hide the proper way of applying these motions. Through personal discovery I have to agree. Step back to a cat stance (not forwards) when doing Calming the Ocean Try Dividng the Storm sweeping back to a bow instead of to a horse. You can make these changes to almost every motion. That may seem pretty obvious... but why teach this form with stances that are not the most effective or practical?

Hey grasshopper, just curious are you saying the "truthful combinations 1-18 " are the same thing as the "Temple Motions 1-18". just curious. And with calming the ocean were you taught to step forward or backward into your cat stance??? I am curious.. I wanted to compliment you on this site as well. i think it is a good thing so far. Some heated debate I see , but nothing malicious. Cool. And there is even people talking about the art itself. Lovin' it. shawn

Hello Sifu Shawn, I’d have to agree about changing things in the Temple Motions. I learned do them different ways from different instructors at different schools. One of my instructors was actually taught them in mirror image form. Eventually, he had to learn to practice them on both sides. What Grasshopper said about stepping back in “Dividing the Storm”. I was taught to apply it in this fashion. Here is a link to a vid of Larry Tatum using “Parting Wings”. http://www.ltatum.com/movies/Week1/TipOfTheWeekMed.html The “Rounding of Corners” he speaks of could have been the lesson I was given. (They are that close, except that Mr. Tatum is speaking of another block.) By the way, have you gone here and checked out Grasshoppers vids? http://zenshack.net/martialarts/martialartsvideoclips.htm I’d be very interested on your view of the Hung Video. The Video titled “Fu Yen” is another one I’d be interested in reading your opinion of. Regards, MrE2Me2

MrE2Me2, The Fu Yen Video is what I train as Kempo 1, 2 and 3. It is very similar anyways. With some slight differences. Its hard to say because there have been effects added to it to make the video look older than it really is(I think). I have seen members of Silent River Kung Fu Studios perform that form at tournaments so they are obviously of Moo lineage. And there version is very close to that.So there are a lot of clubs performing a form very similar to the one "fu yen" is doing. One of my fellow instructors also knows kempo 1-4 from master Margie Hilbigs System. kempo 1 is the same, but from there it is totally different. There is no similarities between her kempo's 2 and up and GM Simons kempo 2 and up. Also her temple motions 1- 18 are completely different then the ones we disscussing. As for the Hung Videos. The first one is similar to what i train as hung2. but there are some definite differences. The second Form, I dont know, if I stretch my imagination it could be a bit like hung 3 but it is honestly a lot different. Perhaps it is hung 4. i have never seen hung 4 performed however so I am just guessing. If you look around try to find some Tam Tui videos on the net. There was apparently 5 systems of Tam Tui, one of them being hung style. I used to have a web link in my favorites but i must have deleted it. The Hung Forms that I train could arguably be from the art Tam Tui from what i have seen and researched. That however is my theory, it is not a Moo kempo fact. I dont know. I could talk about this kind of stuff for hours. I love it. shawn

Hi Sifu Shawn & MrE2ME2, And with calming the ocean were you taught to step forward or backward into your cat stance??? I am curious.. Forward YES! The Fu Yen Video is what I train as Kempo 1, 2 and 3. It is very similar anyways. With some slight differences. Its hard to say because there have been effects added to it to make the video look older than it really is(I think). You are right about the age effect added to that video. It is only a few months old As for the Hung Videos. The first one is similar to what i train as hung2. but there are some definite differences. The second Form, I dont know, if I stretch my imagination it could be a bit like hung 3 but it is honestly a lot different. Perhaps it is hung 4. That version of hung is a combination of 1, 2 & 3 that was put together strictly for TKF public charity demos.