Tales of Training

Hello to all, Something I have been meaning to get off my chest. I read the letter allegedly posted by Troy Sparrow. And that is where I am making this comparison from. Troy Sparrow allegedly trained for years at Temple Kung fu. TKF_PHS trained for years at Temple Kung Fu. Troy Sparrow allegedly was against the old business model. TKF_PHS is against most aspects of the old business model. Troy Sparrow allegedly left Temple “with a heavy heart”. TKF_PHS left Temple feeling less than pleased. I could go on but why belabor the obvious. These two guys have much in common up to this point (imho). After they left Temple… Troy Sparrow allegedly lost his wife. TKF_PHS has blossomed as a career martial artist. Troy Sparrow allegedly lost his job. TKF_PHS now teaches policemen and was a soldier. Troy Sparrow has not returned to this forum (and announced himself). TKF_PHS posts regularly. I must confess, According to what I have read, I once had a lot in common with the Troy Sparrow I read about. It took some serious work and a couple of very good friends to help me out. (And if you are reading this Kurt, I’m talking about you, my red amigo.) If not for his support, you’d presently have another moderator. This is not a defense of indefensible positions or actions. It is more of a,”see the glass as half full rather than half empty”, kind of thing. I type this thread because I was inspired to do so by impressive people. Regards, MrE2Me2 Without prejudice E&OE

Sorry but I do not have any other good training stories. TKF_PHS, right now I find that kickboxing is much better. Before people go nuts please understand that this is only an opinion. I was a brown belt when I left. I clearly think that Moh is a more refined Art than kickboxing. It's just that kickboxing's method of training outweighs it's weaknesses. The full contact training allows kickboxers to actually land blows. Temple trains to miss. What's inherently wrong with this is stopping 1 inch short just doesn't cut it. When you want to hit you can't just turn it on because you want to. The benefits of full contact clearly outweigh the little to no contact sparring. The evidence can be seen in every military organization around the world. My cousin is in the military and has had the opportunity to train with the Navy Seals, Delta Force and British SAS. They all train full contact with no hitting to small joints (knees, elbows). I was told when I was at Temple that it would be too dangerous to train full contact with the moves that we do. But, my cousin spoke to all the instructors with each of these elite organizations and every single one said training to strike and hit (while not trying to do grievous damage by hitting joints etc) will outweigh training with deadly moves but not touching each other. Since these elite organizations are in the business of killing and this is the model that they have chosen for martial arts I will choose to follow in their footsteps as their method is tried and proven in actual combat.

Hello Temple Brotherhood, I’m glad that you now train in an art that is rewarding to you. I’m also saddened that you feel your time with TKF was not productive. And let me add, there are others on this forum who feel the same way. There are also those of us who feel quite different. I post much more than anyone else here. I am seeing a kind of a trend. Those of us from the old school and the new school are rough and tough. Those who complain the most are from an era that seems to be in between these. Vortexx, (a member of this forum) has posted about the chief instructor in Calgary. This guy has been in the military for a long time and swears by Mo Kempo. There is also a constable in Alberta who has used what he learned at Temple to survive. Nor are the previously mentioned accounts unusual. Several board members of this forum have posted about how fierce Mo training can be. When you post about training in the military, it reads as very similar to these guy’s posts. Anyway, I was once very disillusioned with the old business model. It took a lot to make me focus forward and see clearer. This thread is devoted to that ideal. “Feeling Good, Like a Hard Man Should!” L.O.L.! TKFBS told me of his very best experience. It happened at a BJJ school and it was a very interesting read. Surely you have had a positive experience somewhere! Regards, MrE2Me2 Without prejudice E&OE

Hello, Temple Brotherhood: About your story with Sparrow, when did it happen? "just that kickboxing's method of training outweighs it's weaknesses." Yes, TKF certainly had a lot of problems with its training methods, but as MrE2Me2 said, these same problems did not exist back in his day, and they have been mostly fixed in the current studios. In some of my previous posts I explain that sparring now has way more contact and is far more realistic than it has been for many years. We still don't use body gear, but we make as much contact as we can (especially at the higher levels) without causing injury. We go for all targets except the eyes, and we only stop when an effective, finishing blow (or series of blows) has been landed. It's still likely not as much contact, especially at the lower levels, as your kickboxing school, but you have to remember that TKF attracts a different kind of student than the full contact schools, and many would quit if they had to take full-power blows right off the bat. "The evidence can be seen in every military organization around the world." To expand on MrE2Me2's response (and to summarize what I posted elsewhere): The Calgary chief has been in the military for 26 years, mostly in the Canadian Special Forces. He's been in many major military deployments overseas in the last few decades, and has trained special forces personnel for many years. He's a 3rd degree black belt at TKF, and would not have stayed for almost two decades if his military training was superior. Former Edmonton chief Mark Smith (Atkin), who has been a cop for the last 5 or 6 years, has recently received a Canadian National Police Association Excellence Award for disarming and subduing a crazed robber armed with 4 knives. Mark did not have time to draw his weapon, and would now be dead if not for his TKF training. Both him and Mr. Wilkinson, an ex-chief from Vancouver who also works for the Calgary police, have been involved in training the Calgary police force. Margie Hilbig's training the Edmonton police. GMS himself has trained RCMP in the past. Many of our students are in the Canadian military, or work as security guards, including overseas. They wouldn't stay with TKF if their professional training was better.

To all, I am posting this in the hopes that it will not be the target of cheap shots. This isn’t exactly a “Tale of Training”. It is more in the nature of an experiment for instructors. When I was a young(er) teacher of Martial Arts, I saw a cartoon. Two guys are practicing in gi’s. The black belt is thumping the white belt. In the next frame, they change belts. Now it is the “new” black belt who is doing the thumping. In the ma magazines of that day, as now, there was speculation. Who was a good fighter and who wasn’t.” So I tried the following experiment in every private lesson I had (and several group). I’d have a segment with sparring. And I’d switch belts with them after a few minutes. The results were as follows. With anyone who was a green belt or above, there was no change at all. With orange belt holders there was a little change. Yellow belts showed more of a change still. But it was beginners who showed the most profound change. Put a black belt on them and their confidence rose. They would try a wide variety of different techniques and tactics. They would retreat less and attack more. Things they would not do when wearing a white belt. In the case of a beginner, you might say,”The clothing helped make the man”. Regards, MrE2Me2

"In the case of a beginner, you might say,”The clothing helped make the man”." Cool. Interesting results. Kind of makes sense, too.

Yes, in retrospect, it does make a certain sense. After all, a beginner enters training with an open attitude. He/she is willing to try and is open to a lot. There are fewer expectations and limits with a beginner, Than there would be with a colored belt holder. It is mostly a mental experiment anyway.

Everything seemed to slow right down. Then my lead arm flicked up and blocked his kick. This is a very interesting statement, MrE2Me2! Mr. Leishman use to say the very same thing. He described this as the experience of entering a state of present time holistic awareness, in which the mind is completely attuned to the present moment. He had a very intelligent approach to training this state of mind, in accord with the principles of form and timing. There are a couple of passages in 'The White Priest', which speak to this subject as well. For example: 1) "In contrast to his marvellous ability to move his body and limbs on the ground, he was also capable of altering his maneuvers in mid-air, choosing in the last fraction of the moment an altogether different target from the one he intended to strike." (First Edition, p. 73) And, 2) "The state of 'wu' (satori) in which the 'no mind' experience manifests itself through experience." (First Edition, p. 58 ) With regard to the Principle of Form, as I indicated in the past, Leishman rooted it in the teaching of the I Ching. For those who may not be aware, the I Ching is comprised of 64 Principles or Laws, referred to by the name of Hexagrams. The 64 Hexagrams evolved from 8 Trigrams, and the 8 Trigrams evolved from the two lines, one solid and the other broken, symbolizing the powers of Yin and Yang. Now, according to the I Ching teachings, all "forms" are comprised within the 64 Hexagrams. Thus, one could say that the 8 Trigrams are "the Keys" to the 64 Hexagrams, and that all forms could be reduced in some manner to the 8 Basic Trigrams, and the Original Lines, denoting Yin from Yang. Now, in accord with this archetypal idea of "the keys to all forms", Mr. Leishman taught that there were 32 basic keys or fist-art movements. In degree training, each of these 32 keys had to be mastered individually in accord with a 24 "vector" system, meaning the 3 gates in each of the 8 directions. This training took place within 'the Great Floor Circle'. When all keys were mastered individually, then they had to be unified, step by step, in the same manner, according to the 24 vectors. I am simplifying, of course, for the sake of brevity, but this is the path he laid out for the development of true holistic awareness in regard to form. Timing was a little different. In regard to the Principle of Timing, he taught a system of "bridging" that trained one's awareness and ability to, as Simon said above, alter moves "in mid-air, choosing in the last fraction of the moment an altogether different target from the one he intended to strike." This ability, to change course "in the last fraction of the moment", he said, could only be trained by developing holistic awareness of "the bridges" in each movement. The bridges signified the actual points or moments in the flight path of a strike, for example, where one possessed enough awareness and control of the movement to spontaneously alter it. To me it felt like nothing but K.R. acted like I’d hit him with a hammer. His kick was blocked efficiently and I’d countered in the same motion. Had it been a real attack, he would definitely (have) been deterred. A classic case of the "Chan" state of no-mind, also known as "flowing-mind" or the Mind of Tao, continuously flowing and unobstructed!

Hello Yen Hui, This slow motion effect is only one way of allowing the body to function, Without the conscious mind trying to interfere. The other way was commented on by Wayne. When I asked him about his sparring matches, He described some as “not knowing what happened”. He would move correctly in the moment but be completely unaware of it. Sometimes he would have to reconstruct it after. Nor was he alone in this “momentary amnesia” (for lack of a better term). It happened to me during a scuffle one night when my teacher was watching. After it was over and we were talking, He commented about the footsweep I had used. I was surprised because I did not remember using it. Yet he saw it and it was a deliberate act (not an inadvertent action). Even to this day, I do not remember that sweep. I also had a student who defended himself against a knife wielding attacker. When he talked to me later, he did not remember what he had done. It was only with the eye witness testimony of others and my help, That he eventually realized exactly what had taken place. Sometimes, the “no-mind” must be literally that. Regards, MrE2Me2

humourous story
Hey all This is a story that I remember from the vancouver south studio back when Mr Simms was teaching. It was a hot day and Mr Simms was teaching skills class at the front of the hall (before the two halls were joined) with the door open beside him. We were stretching after the workout and someone in the back of the room let out a silent but deadly fart. Most in the room could smell it (it was pretty bad) except for Mr Simms because he was sitting close to the open door. All he could smell was someone in the alley bbqing something and so just when everyone was being disgusted by the smell of someones gas, Mr Simms takes a big breath in and shout "ah smell that bbq". Everyone immediately started to laugh and at first I don't think that Mr Simms knew why everyone laughed but I saw an expression on his face later when I think the smell in the room reached him and he figured it out. thanks swollenknuck http://www.myspace.com/swollenknuck "Shedding more sweat in peace means less blood in war"

Hey all Another funny story that I remember being told, this one is about Mr Wilkinson. It was in the calgary south studio and he was teaching a private lesson. A student had brought him in some of those white powder donuts and part way through class he had to go into his office to answer the phone and while he was there he ate a couple of the donuts then went back out to teach. He taught the remaining thirty minutes or so of the class and then bowed out, booked his student in for his next class and then went back into the office. I believe this is where the chief came in and took one look at Mr Wilkinson and told him to look into the mirror. when he did he saw that he had white powder from the donuts all over the lower half of his face. Now imagine being his student and having to keep a straight face while your teacher teaches you for about half the lesson with white powder all over his face. thank you swollenknuck http://www.myspace.com/swollenknuck "Shedding more sweat in peace means less blood in war"

Hi all, I had almost resigned from posting, however another thread had brought to my attention a lovely story I would like to share. We opened an authentic Kenpo Karate school across from the Wpg. south tkf school. One of my favorite days teaching was when the EMT guys rushed in asking for the instructor w/ the broken arm. We replied " Sorry , across the street is where you need to be" We were right. Seems the newbies taking over were not immune from their students. J.K.

To all, TKFBS, let me get this straight. The Winnipeg South Temple Kung Fu Studio called for an ambulance. And they did this because of a broken bone received during training. Training in kung fu by an instructor? Sounds like Calgary in the old days to me. I remember Wayne telling me how he got his arm broken when he was an instructor. He was sparring with his teacher and he saw the start of a side kick. So he dropped an elbow on it. Unfortunately, his block arrived before the side kick did. The side kick broke his arm. Regards, MrE2Me2 Without prejudice E&OE

Hey TKFBS, Was that around the late nineties, because before I arrived in Winnipeg there was an instructor there who broke his arm not because of sparring but because of his own stupidity. The instructor (who shall remain nameless) was with his chief the week before where his chief demonstrated breaking a staff on a dare from the instructor. Fast forward to next week and the chief was on holidays and the instructor was there by himself. He decided to try breaking a staff as well which was his first mistake as he was not taught to do this. His second mistake was taking one of the broken halves of the stick his chief broke and attempting to break it. Now most of us know that if you shorten the length of the object you are trying to break it strength increases considerably, well instead of breaking the stick he broke his arm. thank you swollenknuck http://www.myspace.com/swollenknuck "Shedding more sweat in peace means less blood in war"

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