I agree with Vortexx, I was taught not to bob or weave, especially against a quick move like a jab or double jab. Instead, I was taught other things like simultaneous block/counter punch or multiple blocks(against a double jab). I have found that a quick preemtive strike of my own works well too. For those times when I see an opportunity, I'll use a jab myself. A love attackers who use fully committed moves, Unfortunately, I have found that a smart fighter will not usually do that until it is to his advantage. So I had to learn to fight smart fighters as the rule, rather than the exception.

Ducking and weaving, these are tools used for a specific range of combat, that's why they are so useful for boxers. Long range, close quarter fighting seldom have to use these tools. There are of coarse exceptions, the over committed lunge punch or close range uppercuts are 2 that come to mind. As boxing does not employ kicks or grappling but rather concentrates on an arms reach approach necessitate more evasive fluid motions. Martial arts use all ranges, though some may concentrate on more specific ranges. The close quarter/infighting range is usually where most fights end up. Infighting/grappling where sudden push/pull strategies are employed seem to demand IMO a more fluid approach. Using static stances in that scenario will usually result in you lifting your feet, which could be disasterous. Ducking/weaving in a close quarter fight may not work but that is not to say that you must not employ the strategies of fluidity. How does tkf deal with grappling? Is it with static stances or a more open approach.

Hey Cam, What you say about boxing makes a lot of sense. Although, something that I have found is that boxers use thick heavy gloves and strike only with the fore fist. This isn’t a put down but it does limit the use of things like basic blocks and certain martial arts strikes. Also, boxers tend to rely on the clinch and the ref. With the popularization of sports like the U.F.C., neither the ref nor the clinch can be counted on as particularly safe (in my opinion). The upside to full contact with 4 once gloves is the elimination of fallacies like, “The stopping the heart punch”. The downside is that there is a tendency to treat this sport as self-defense when it isn’t. I find dealing with grapplers is another kettle of fish entirely. The version of Moh that I learned was primarily a non grappling art. I was taught to hit anyone who attempted to grapple with me. I learned that grappling was a bad and dangerous activity that could seriously injure me. I learned that the best distance for me was what ¾ distance. The trick was to get in close enough to strike without being struck or taken down. Now I know it isn’t always possible to avoid being grappled with. So I had to make my defenses against grappling effective and realistic (or I’d get hurt). Static stances in the Moh I learned. In combat, static stances were just never a part of the Moh that I learned (even when strictly striking). I was taught that stances were just a pause in a fluid movement of withdrawal and attack. The only time I practiced being still was during certain parts of my training, so that I could place more emphasis on techniques and tactics that didn’t rely so heavily on movement. Good Luck in your Training!

RE
Cam/ TKFBS/ Drunken Monkey, etc are on the money on this topic. It's interesting to listen to Vortexx (why don't you guys just use you names 'cause it's starting to sound like XMEN around here). We've all heard your reasons for training the TKF way; blocks, stances, etc. If you can make it work for you then all the power to you. Obviously it will work in certain cases. Perhaps you may want to challenge everything you've learned up until now. The Moh system teaches the student fundamentals that have an adverse cascade effect that ultimately holds the student to a specific level where they really can't grow. Some key points being: breathing- holding your breath between mocements is unnatural (unless you're under water or something) Low stances are unnecessary as well. While they do develop strength everything I've learned since leaving TKF suggests TKF teaches stances incorrectly. These 2 things alone doom a TKF student from finding higher levels of speed and power however if you compound that with a disregard for the proper use of waist/ hips/ spine/ joints/ angles/ breathing / etc then TKF student will remain suppressed from moving forward. If Simon studied kung fu as he would have believe then he would never have you train in this manner. As to the previous comment about "not seeing enough blocks in competition which is disappointing..." This comment speaks volumes and I'm trying not imply any disrespect here. There's a reason why these guys don't use blocks like that; it's because they'll get pummeled, plain and simple. All of this stuff may work in a lab however if I don't think you'll be able to pull it off if you have a really good sparring partner. Cheers DS

Boxing is a sport, yes but it teaches you timing, distance, gives you good endurance and puts you in a situation where you learn to hit and be hit. Boxers should never be taken lightly because they can lay you out! Judo, another sport, is similar though without the punching, it's usefulness is that you work with a live opponent, always! The mixing of these 2 sports will give one good fighting skills IMO. Now you may say that it lacks a kicking component, which is true but I think kicking is over-rated anyway. Not that learning kicks and strategies against them are not important but most kicks only work at a long range, a range that is usually fleeting in a real combat scenario. Knees are another thing altogether! After saying that, why don't I train these 2 "sports", well at 44 years of age I don't need the injuries and they are not my cup of tea! Taijiquan, being the "old man" martial art is more my cup of tea. It does contain strategies for all fighting ranges beginning with the arms length approach. It does this by push hands training, now push hands is not sparring, rather it is training to learn to use your body according to the principals learned in the form. The problem is that it takes a long time, not an art for quick self-defense skills but given enough time a formidable fighting style! Okay enough on that rant, I was wondering what does tkf do to train the mid-range and close range skills that you might find in judo/boxing. I believe Vortexx has said that tkf now employs grappling, does this mean that tkf is now more of a mma, will we see any tkf students in UFC?

Hi Dave, spot on! I have yet to hear any mention of body mechanics from a tkf student or teacher for that matter! Whenever I have talked to yourself or any of the other students of CMA, whether Hung Gar, Choy Li Fut, Baquazhang, etc.., they always talk of body mechanics, power generation and the diverse ways they acheive them. The language may differ but the principals are by and large the same!

We've all heard your reasons for training the TKF way; blocks, stances, etc. If you can make it work for you then all the power to you. Obviously it will work in certain cases. Perhaps you may want to challenge everything you've learned up until now. The Moh system teaches the student fundamentals that have an adverse cascade effect that ultimately holds the student to a specific level where they really can't grow. Some key points being: breathing- holding your breath between mocements is unnatural (unless you're under water or something) Low stances are unnecessary as well. While they do develop strength everything I've learned since leaving TKF suggests TKF teaches stances incorrectly. These 2 things alone doom a TKF student from finding higher levels of speed and power however if you compound that with a disregard for the proper use of waist/ hips/ spine/ joints/ angles/ breathing / etc then TKF student will remain suppressed from moving forward. If Simon studied kung fu as he would have believe then he would never have you train in this manner. DS Thanks for the great post Dave, You are so right. I have been away from TKF for 2 years, and have now been training Xingyi & Tai Chi for 3 - 4 months. Everything you talk about is happening to me. I still love the old PHS forms and the style has great applications, but I have some unlearning to do.... It's funnny how you can be told something for months or even years and not absorb it, then suddenly one day it clicks. Your post did it for me. thanks.

"Ducking and weaving, these are tools used for a specific range of combat" I agree that there are times when they are useful. Although we don't give them specific names, we certainly do sometimes move our head or body out of the way without moving the legs. Often it's still in conjunction with a block or cover (as extra security). Sometimes a slight move of the head or shoulders is all that's needed to make the opponent's attack out of range, making a block unnecessary. Often a body turn is all that's needed to deflect the strike off its target and make it ineffective. What we don't do is duck or weave to a point where our body structure is compromised, because although we may thereby successfully avoid a strike, we may not be able to recover our stability fast enough to avoid the second strike. A skillful opponent will be able to take advantage of the change in body position and weight distribution to push/pull you off balance or throw you to the ground. Although we train solid stances in TKF, we by no means spend all our time in one bow stance with our hips locked. We use many different stances, and I would certainly characterize our movement as fluid, even though we may have less torso and head movements than some other styles.

"Using static stances in scenario will usually result in you lifting your feet" On the contrary, often the best way to avoid getting thrown is to be in a solid stance. However, I agree with you that quick change of weight may be necessary, and fluidity is important. Other times, being taken off our feet may be unavoidable, and we're trained to go with the throw but land in a superior fighting position.

"Perhaps you may want to challenge everything you've learned up until now." With the decline of the old TKF studios in the last few years, I have been doing a lot of that: making adjustments to my motions and changing my style to what I thought was more effective. After having worked with the masters and third degree black belts in the new studios, I have no more doubt about the effectiveness of the style, though I still have some unlearning to do of the bad habits I had picked up. I still like to challenge everything I learn, but all my questions are answered fully to my satisfaction. The system "makes sense" and "feels right" for me, if you know what I mean. From the demos and such of other martial arts styles which I've seen over the years, there's nothing I'd rather be learning at this time.

"The Moh system teaches the student fundamentals that have an adverse cascade effect that ultimately holds the student to a specific level where they really can't grow" I don't think so. It's true that at the old studios I was at a stand still for a few years. How could it be otherwise, when I had more experience than the instructors and could outspar most of them? That is no longer the case. Since the opening of the new studios I have felt myself improving faster than ever. For the first time in many years, I'm getting constant correction (as are all the students) on the minute details of everything I do. (A quarter-inch adjustment in the arm angle on a block can change it from being useless to very effective.) I also look at some of the senior students and masters, who have developed phenomenal skill and understanding of the martial arts. If they had plateaued at a certain level, as you suggest, they would never have gotten as good as they have.

"breathing- holding your breath between mocements is unnatural (unless you're under water or something)" Ideally, a self defense scenario should not last more than a few seconds. The breath is held only during the actual moment of engagement, when you're blocking, striking / getting hit, throwing / getting thrown, etc. When that is anticipated or is happening, that is when the breath is locked in. I find that holding a combative breath during that short period of time greatly increases my ability to take a hit (especially to the abdomen, solar plexus, chest, or ribs) or to be slammed into the ground by a throw. In fact, that is the only way I can avoid having the wind knocked out of me when being demonstrated on by the instructor. I also find I can develop more power on my strikes by the proper use of breathing. It's true that a sparring match may last much longer, and no one expects us to hold our breaths for the whole time. However, the current senior instructors and masters treat sparring almost like a self defense scenario, and my sparring engagement with them never lasts more than a few seconds, ending with their complete domination.

"Low stances are unnecessary as well." Low stances, which are only practiced during workouts, are only for developing leg strength and flexibility. No one uses them in sparring, self defense applications, or combative situations.

"There's a reason why these guys don't use blocks like that; it's because they'll get pummeled, plain and simple." Of course they will, if they don't know how to block properly. I don't mean any disrespect either, but if these guys can't get their blocks to work, it's because they haven't been shown them properly, don't know when to apply them, haven't practiced them enough, or haven't learned the proper stances and body structure without which the blocks are useless. There's a reason why blocks are part of every martial art. They wouldn't be taught if they were useless in a practical situation.

"I believe Vortexx has said that tkf now employs grappling, does this mean that tkf is now more of a mma, will we see any tkf students in UFC?" No, TKF is not a MMA now because it's a single system where everything relates to everything else in the style. What has changed is that some applications of the style which have been neglected in the past are now being more emphasized. We don't see grappling and striking stuff as two separate approaches or styles. Instead, we see both as part of one integrated system which uses different approaches in different situations and combines them in various degrees when necessary. The emphasis is still on stand-up fighting and striking, but we do learn how to deal with take-downs and grappling situations. No, I don't think you're likely to see TKF in UFC. But as the new owners said in their letter, if a realistic competition which complements our training presents itself in the future, you might very well see us there.