Secrets of Moh Kenpo
Secrets, every style ie reported to have them, usually by jr. students looking to impress thier friends or peers I guess. Sometimes the Masters themselves will talk of "secrets", looking for new students to impress! When I practise my form, I do it at the park and gasp!!!, people can see me! So much for secrets! Members of this very board have posted vids showing the holiest of holies, Moh Tecniques, why even the Kenpo, Hung and Stick forms have been posted as well as the top secret Temple Motions!! AS of yet no one has posted the super top-secret PHS forms, I wonder if they follow any principles of TCMA, doubt it? Now I don't have to ask the pro-tkf crowd how they feel, they would say that all these posters have betrayed simon and have no honour :roll: I sometimes have to remind muself that I am indeed speaking with adults, no matter the child-like replies! What of you others, how do you feel about breaking the "code", do you truly believe you are showing something so top secret that no one has ever seen the like, or are you just showing techniques that have been repeated a million times in other dojo's across the land, the only difference being the particular "flavour" that simon's system has?

Well, lots of people now train the moh kempo forms, even though not in any TKF school. Some have said they have even seen them in forms competitions. So I don't think any real secret is being let out,and since those who are posting don't train at a TKF I don't think they are really breaking any rules. Or being dishonorable. Yes TKF's moves are in different styles although there are differences ( angles, crossing, etc..) I'm personally glad no one has started showing Pai Hu Shih forms as I think that would be starting to cross the line, for me at least. They are not common knowledge, and despite what some think, they do have value. I wouldn't say that no one has seen the like of PHS techniques but I wouldn't just hand out the information either. Those who think all tkf techniques are poor or do not follow TCMA, are missing something( IMO). As I have trained both and find many of the same pricipal's at work, although I will admit some big differences too. But I find value in the system. I have taught enough students from other styles, as well as trained in other styles, to see what is good and what is not, and truthfully believe alot of the stuff shown is good. Pai Mei

Hello cam, I suppose that some may see what is being shown as betraying a code. I never really thought about it from that angle. I dont really beleive that the Martial Arts contains any real secrets for those who train diligently. It takes years of practice to master the arts , that is without question, and I am the first to admit I have years of training ahead of me before I would consider myself any where near proficient in the arts. To those who do not train at all, the intricacies of the arts may seem like something of a mystical nature, or like some kind of secret... I beleive some techniques are witheld or some forms not taught to some people, but that does not make them secret, it makes them priveledged. No amount of hard work can make a person exeed the bounds of what is humanly possible. Those who show real signs of superhuman strength generally have a natural gift to begin with, which martial arts training just enhances..... People who want others to believe they are the holder of some kind of secret, are in my opinion bordering on fraudulent. First of all if I had a secret, why would I want to tell you I have a secret??? Just to pique your curiosity probably, to see how far I can make you follow me... There are Martial Artists out there with extreme amounts of knowledge, who make what I know look insignificant by comparison and who I admire greatly. But it is not because they are the holder of secrets. It is because they are the holders of experience and knowledge.... ( and I think experience and knowledge get confused with the word secret by those who lack experience and knowledge) And not all experience and knowledge is to be shared with all people... And to those who are not privy to such knowledge may feel that there is a secret being kept from them. And true experience and knowledge can not be learned from a clip on you tube. The stuff posted on there really only means anything to those training martial arts in general, and even more specifically to those training Moo kempo. If anyone really feels they are the holder of a secret. Best keep it to yourself, otherwise it might get out................. sifu shawn

PAI MEI I'm personally glad no one has started showing Pai Hu Shih forms as I think that would be starting to cross the line, for me at least. They are not common knowledge, and despite what some think, they do have value. I wouldn't say that no one has seen the like of PHS techniques but I wouldn't just hand out the information either Thank you for that thought. I do not personally know any Pai Hu Shih forms. But I do beleive you they have value.. And as for you "not wanting to just hand that information out" that is what I was saying about some things being privledged information.. See I would like to learn abit of Pai Hu Shih, but I have no way of learning from where I am. And you may not want to teach me even if we were neighbours.... But that does not make it secret, that only makes it privledged. sifu shawn

Hello Cam, While I do believe that these techniques have been shown before, I also believe that kung fu is a matter of feel. And it doesn’t matter if I don’t practice, anyway. An experienced pro can take me places a vid cannot. But a vid is always there to inspire me and entertain me. So I believe that vids have their place. Just like solo practice does. Having posted a version of the forms, I don’t feel like I have broken any code. Although, speaking of breaking codes. I do remember this neat comic book ad from my youth. The one where the guy is wearing a mask to protect his identity. So that the other master won’t hunt him down and kill him. Boy, that was so Great! (When I was 6 years old) Regards, MrE2Me2

Secrets! Well I know 2 of them, Train correctly and train a lot! Vids are for entertainment only, unless you are familiar with the style there is next to no learning involved. A vid can never correct your motion, nor can it give you a hands on approach. You may be able to pick up the choreography of the form on a vid but you will never be able to pick up the fine points. This is why this secrecy or "reserved" knowledge thing irks me. As a matter of fact I see vids as a form of Quality Control. I can check out many variations of the form that I am currently training on the web. It is fascinating to see the subtle and not so subtle differences in the form. Now suppose I wanted to check out Hung Gar, I am sure that I could find many snippets of thier forms on the web, it would be a convenient introduction to that school of training. It would also be a good way of closing down the many fraudulent schools out there! If people could check out the forms of a school before joining it may help to give them a better understanding of what they are in for!

Hello Cam, Here is a so-called secret. Actually, it is much easier to show in person than by forum but here goes anyway :-D First is a vid of Black punching from three different beginnings (I believe that American Kenpo Karate calls them “points of origin”). http://youtube.com/watch?v=yAwdF0ihm-o Each has its own advantages and disadvantages. If you look here, you’ll see him perform an inside block before punching. He is able to use all three beginnings. Therefore both hands are free and ready to block (a “Defensive Fighting Position”.) http://youtube.com/watch?v=RMbpg6gSOlc But if you look here, you’ll see that Black cannot use the last or “High Guard Position” for launching his counter. He is blocking an incoming attack to the very place his fist would be at, in this “High Guard Position”. http://youtube.com/watch?v=Un1VlbEhyWM Regards, MrE2Me2

You're right, it is more difficult grasp by just watching the vids. What I did grasp, the "secret", is that not only can you strike, (high,low,center) as an ending point of the strike. You may also launch you strikes from varying heights,angles,positions, etc.... I don't know if that is what you are trying to get across, no sound! If that is the case, then you are talking about strategy, which can only be taught in real time, with partners! I guess another "secret" would be to include the idea of blocking high/striking low or viceversa. Throw in that moh tech, where you pivot from a right bow to a left bow by pivoting on the balls of your feet and you can turn your blocks into a more pulling motion/directing motion as you pivot. I guess a "secret" of the style I do is that I don't have to pivot on balls of my feet, I just turn my waist to face 90 degrees in the other direction, the benefits of having your hips opened up in the bow stance.

Hello Cam, You grasped the “secret” all right. When I was young(er) the popular art was Karate with the standard lead hand high for defense and the rear hand chambered by the hip low for the counter offensive thrust. Not a particularly flashy move today, but back then it was mana from heaven for us knowledge starved nubies. Western Boxing had no blocking other than positional blocking (put an arm in the way). So both arms were held high ready to eat a glove or lash out. It was my limited understanding of western boxing that this pugilistic endeavor was as much about how to take a punch, as it was to give one. I never really saw anyone fight or spar with their hands chambered in between until I trained in Mo Kempo. As with anything, I found that for any advantage, there is an equal and opposite disadvantage. My hands held in mid guard can strike hard and quick but they can also be grabbed or smothered by someone with better sticky hand techniques or maybe push hands (and no sarcasm). So my minor secret was to initiate fore fist thrusts from any and all three points of origin (as my American Kenpo friends would say). As for turning your waist 90 degrees, I am unable to do that so I’d cry foul. “Can we have a ref over here to supervise this street fight, please!” :-D Regards, MrE2Me2

Okay, two minutes for a moving violation :lol: Though you move your back foot first and then do that hip torque method in very quick succession! Or do you leave your back foot "open " enough that you can pivot your forward hip. I think it most be in one of your many vids, you should make a catalogue 8)

Hey all, You're right, it is more difficult grasp by just watching the vids. What I did grasp, the "secret", is that not only can you strike, (high,low,center) as an ending point of the strike. You may also launch you strikes from varying heights,angles,positions, etc.... Id have to agree with statement. Really it is best train in the fasion Mr.E2Me2 demonstrated in that video. I personally think it is best to be able to block from and counter from any position. It easy to lure untrained fighters in using false openings. And its kind of fun to force a sparring partner into a position that he is not capable of blocking and countering from in an intelligent fasion.( if he followed Mr. E2Me2 concepts here, it is less likely for him to end up in that position). But it can also be kind of a creepy feeling when (after a while of training and sparring with other artists) they start to figure out my weaknesses and they try to force me in a position where I am vulnerable. On the upside of that, when a student starts to land shots on you, you know you are doing your job right as a teacher. The coach side of me is happy about it, the fighter side of me has a different way of seeing it. :lol: sifu shawn

Hello Sifu Shawn, Thank you for your kind words. About creepy feelings: Wayne once said that I could be a great fighter or a great teacher. But that at the time and place I was at, I would have to choose. It was very understated and I happened to agree with his assessment (then and now). I chose to teach and I have never regretted it. (But I don’t have that fire-in-the-belly desire to compete, either.) I have trained more than one student who is better than me at freesparring. I was always quite proud of their abilities. I think that we are on the same wave length here. Regards, MrE2Me2

"Now I don't have to ask the pro-tkf crowd how they feel, they would say that all these posters have betrayed simon and have no honour" See, that's another example of how the anti-TKF camp keeps making incorrect assumptions. I'm pro-TKF, but I think there's nothing at all wrong with MrE2Me2 or Sifu Shawn posting videos. In fact, I quite enjoy watching them. Betraying Simon and not having any honour? I think that's just ridiculous. If MrE2Me2 or Sifu Shawn or pretty much any of the old students/instructors walked into a current TKF studio, I'm quite certain the current owners would be more than happy to chat over a cup of tea or coffee. Over the last few months we've had a number of former students and instructors that have been gone for years call or drop in to chat, and some of them came back to train. "Secrets! Well I know 2 of them, Train correctly and train a lot!" Amen to that. Well said, Cam! "See I would like to learn abit of Pai Hu Shih, but I have no way of learning from where I am. And you may not want to teach me even if we were neighbours.... But that does not make it secret, that only makes it privledged." Good point, Sifu Shawn.

Hello Vortexx, You posted, “If MrE2Me2 or Sifu Shawn or pretty much any of the old students/instructors walked into a current TKF studio, I'm quite certain the current owners would be more than happy to chat over a cup of tea or coffee.” It is for reasons like this that I believe you when you say that TKF have changed. That is such a step away from the ways things used to be like. Quite frankly, I’m glad to hear it, even if I cannot take advantage of such an offer, at the moment. Regards, MrE2Me2