Richard Shergold
Excerpts from conversation I had with Master Shergold "I met his brother and they do not get along. When Olaf found out I had once spoken to his brother he got very nervous asking, "What did he tell you?" and "Never speak to him again!". When I asked Olaf's brother about the existence of Fu Yen and Olaf teaching at the Temples his brother said he never heard that... I still speak regularly to Margi Hilbig. She trained much more extensively with Ed Parker than Simon ever did. Much of the Kempo she brought up and showed Olaf herself. I still maintain contact with Sifu Hilbig as she has kept the Kenpo knowledge intact and didn't change it like he did. Simon only went down a few times to L.A., mostly to brush shoulders and get photos with these guys. He only ever competed in a tournament once, otherwise it was mostly refereeing that he did at the tournaments." LINK REMOVED It's too bad Simon seems to have lied and made up all that crap. But then again if he didn't we would have nothing to talk about... :lol:

In 1983 who was the junior instructor under Richard Shergold. I can't remember his name?

Does Richard Shergold have a school anymore? I look on his website and look for the address of his place and couldn't find it. The website looks like it hasn't been work on for years, even his email doesn't work.

Yeah, he has a couple of websites, I tried that e-mail once too and it doeesn't work, but there is one for him that does, just google his name and you should be able to find it. I'm pretty sure he has his own school as well, with affilliations to several others...

To all, Someone on the other forum posted the following: That Olaf taught Richard Shergold his “White Tiger” system first. This occurred sometime in the 80’s. The rumor is, I read somewhere that Ed Parker came up with an entirely new system. Apparently, he did this in the late 50’s or early 60’s. He is said to have known the following (ahead of time). He knew that the students he had, would not have accepted his new stuff. So he had to come up with a plan that would allow these new things in. He used his base art (from “Thunderbolt” Chow). From that he advanced his new techniques and principles a bit at a time. It took 5 different systems to evolve his system to his satisfaction. Of course, being an Alpha, he was never really satisfied. His system continued to grow until his death in 1990. Although the ideas he had come up with were decades old. The Rub, What Olaf did sounds very similar to what Ed Parker did. The main difference is that Olaf could not admit to it and Ed could. Now I know that there are (or will be) readers who are familiar with this. Comments? Regards, MrE2Me2 Without prejudice E&OE

Yes Richard Shergold learned Simon's version of the White Tiger in the mid 80's I believe. Then when he left tkf he found Vicent Peppers I believe that taught him the real White Tiger.

Allright Mystery Dude, you drew me into an Ed Parker discussion. You have pieces to the E.P. Kenpo puzzle. I will attempt brevity to clear this up for you , but bear w/me. Ed Parker's contribution to the kenpo that he was taught, what made it Ed Parker kenpo, was the way that he organized it. He did not subtract from what he was taught. He did evolve the style through his years. The style he taught in the 60's, 70's, was , let's call it the "base", although it is complete. What he did in the later years to the techniques, was to add what we call "endings" to the base techniques. The "endings" to the techniques are for higher levels; 1st brown to 3rd black . The "endings" were an evolution in how to arrange or apply the art but did not contain new, hidden, or secret information. It was to teach you were to go further with the same principles or concepts. There were no new clubs or he didn't devise another style for it. So because this evolution, these additions to the techniques didn't contain new knowledge many masters from back in the day don't do the full curriculum of techniques as outlined by SGM Parker, before he passed. These older masters have the same principles and ideas, and the endings are considered "busywork" by some. Does that answer your question? PM me for more if necessary.

Hello TKFBS, Thank you for taking the time to respond (no sarcasm). I am somewhat familiar with what you are posting here. However, I am talking about something different. I am saying that he actually changed his system to the modern version it is today. The link http://www.psykenpology.org/lineage.htm Here is a quote that says it best,” Ed found that the traditional Kenpo system needed more modifications. Ultimately, his changes made up 85% of the system which he now call American Kenpo”. But prior to that he had, among others, these guys,” Prior to these modifications, Al, Will, and Jim Tracy founders of the Tracy's System of Kenpo were taking lessons from Parker in California.” TKFBS, He modified what he had learned, as his teacher taught him to. The article. http://www.usadojo.com/articles/magician-motion.htm The quote here is, ” Parker also credited Chow for getting him to consider the notion of master key movements. He says, "Chow and I swapped a lot of infor- mation," he said. "He noticed a lot of thing; didn't work in an American en- vironment. He was the guy who started me thinking about master key move- ments and increasing my knowledge." TKFBS, Here is more on “Master Key Movements” An idea that seems to have a lot to do with where American Kenpo has gone. The link http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-10904.html At this link we have this quote concerning “Master Key Movements”. “MASTER KEY TECHNIQUES entail sequential arrangements of movements that can be applied to a number of predicaments. In the case of a MASTER KEY TECHNIQUE it is a single technique that may be used as a BASE MOVE. Other similar techniques may then be perceived as formulations of it.” And even more on his changes. Then there is this link http://www.akka.org/history.htm Here his work is characterized like this, “Through his observations, Master Parker disproved many theories and concepts that had previously been considered as combat effective. Ed Parker systematized and categorized all the basic Kenpo elements into a logical order of progress” TKFBS, With all due respect, I stand by my original statement. Ed Parker changed his system many times before his death. He stated as much and was proud of it. The link http://www.kenpomachine.com/rootsofepak.html There is this,” Originally, when Ed Parker came to the mainland, he taught what he called “Chinese kenpo” to emphasize its true origin. Some like Steve Herring in Pasadena, California, still teach from this original perspective.” And this,” In fact, Ed Parker even had a tai chi master teaching with, and for him in his school. Having himself studied with the notable Chinese Grandmaster, Ark Wong,” This quote, “He stripped away much of the real Chinese science in favor of a physically conceptual vehicle.” TKFBS, Why does this sound so familiar? “Later on, he regretted using the term “karate,” but he felt he was “stuck” with it for a variety of reasons.” The link. http://www.q-net.net.au/~razored/Ed%20Parker.htm At this link he says,” “When I am gone, I hope that people won't try to traditionalise my Art. I want you to always remember that Kenpo will always be the Art of Perpetual Change. If you remember this, then the Art will never become obsolete because it will change with the times. While the ignorant refuse to study and the intelligent never stop, we should always be mindful of the fact that our reward in life is proportionate with the contributions we make. A true Martial Artist is not one who fears change, but one who causes it to happen. To live is to change, and to obtain perfection is to have changed often." Regards, MrE2Me2 Without prejudice E&OE

Hey Mystery Guy, Is it your goal to make me eat my words? Having spent some time in the Parker system , I know of what I speak. The art wasn't "changed" , it was modified and updated over time. The forms are the same as taught back then, as are the techniques. That is NOT changing the art. SGM Parker may have used those words, having spent almost 15 years in the style and training with the most senior members may have given me an enlightened view, probably more informed than yourself. If you are trying to bait me and twist the words a little bit, to make Simon look more credible, I am not playing. Bye. J.K.

Hello TKFBS, You posted,” Is it your goal to make me eat my words?” Absolutely Not! It is my intention to express my view that Olaf and Ed were both movers and shakers. Both redesigned their systems several times. But where Ed made an honest seamless series of changes, Olaf did not. I was once at a Kenpo forum where one guy asked, ”Who the heck is Ed Parker?” About ten different people jumped to Ed’s defense. Can you see ten people jumping to Olaf’s defense? I don’t think I can. I have only the greatest respect for Grand Master Ed Parker. Moreover, I would like you to notice that I usually address the other as “Olaf”. I do this because I think that what he and his did (in the past) was NOT okay. You posted, ‘If you are trying to bait me and twist the words a little bit, to make Simon look more credible…“ As I said, Not a Chance! If I can find a specific reference to Ed Parker changing his system 5 times, I’ll post it.. We may have some difference of opinion on how Ed Parker changed American Kenpo. But it is a minor difference. Regards, MrE2Me2 Without prejudice E&OE

To all, In my humble opinion, My original premise in starting this post: A Comparison of Olaf’s and Ed Parker’s M.A. system development. I implied that Olaf has changed Mo several times I stated that Ed Parker had gone through five different transitions. I just found out that most American Kenpo people did not know of this because they were not there. Both Olaf and Ed changed their systems several times. In light of this proof that I offer; Isn’t it possible that Ed could admit to what he had done but Olaf could not? Regards, MrE2Me2 The Proof And here is the proof of what I read about Ed Parker and his transitions. http://www.americankenpo.com/dedication.html “American Kenpo began with Ed Parker. But it is not a single system as Ed went through five transitions before arriving at what would be come the Ed Parker Style of American Kenpo.” And more, “Thus, in 1965, Ed Parker's new system (his fourth) began to emerge from his genius.” And more still, “But Ed did not reveal this new system completely that early.” And at this link we have this quote at the bottom of the page http://www.tracyskarate.com/FAQ'S/EDtrain.htm “This period of time is the least known or understood by most people in American Kenpo because none of them were there. This period of time (1960-1966) would become known as the "Chinese Years". Without prejudice E&OE

To all, Grasshopper quotes Master Shergold, ” ...still speak regularly to Margi Hilbig. She trained much more extensively with Ed Parker than Simon ever did. Much of the Kempo she brought up and showed Olaf herself. I still maintain contact with Sifu Hilbig as she has kept the Kenpo knowledge intact and didn't change it like he did.” Yet in my above post I stated that, Ed Parker changed his system several times from the time, Master Hibig would have originally learned it. It would be interesting to compare her American Kenpo knowledge with the American Kenpo techniques of a later student. Master Shergold also states, “The first person that started to learn Olaf WT was R. Terlecki”. I postulated earlier in this thread, “What Olaf did sounds very similar to what Ed Parker did. The main difference is that Olaf could not admit to it and Ed could.” Regards, MrE2Me2 Without prejudice E&OE

RD