RD

Hello RD, It is a matter of trust. Even you said you, “will stand up and support your grand master until your dying breath”. http://templekungforum.14.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?p=1569&highlight=#1569 Yet now, you “would seek clarification before signing”. (What happened to “…support...until dying…”?) But that is an apparent contradiction. (Do you not see this?) From my point of view, you seem to want it both ways. You can have all the protection the law offers a prospective purchaser. And at the same time, you can support Olaf and Doreen. Regards, MrE2Me2 Without prejudice E&OE

RD

Hello RD, *When this forum first started, both Current student and Vortexx made it clear that the new management at TKF had changed the way business was done. So I am speaking of past business practices here. By your own admission, you have never bought a franchise from Olaf and Doreen. So you are posing a hypothetical situation (for you). You posted, “When I said I would seek clarification, I was talking about signing a contract that would affect my future.” In the old days, you wouldn’t be allowed to “seek clarification”. No one was allowed to question “His Holiness” or “The Keeper of Forms”. You posted, “My loyalty as a student is with GMS, but I think and act independently.” Independent thought was actively discouraged at SKS/TKF, in more than one era. You posted, “We have to live with the consequences of our own actions so we are all ultimately responsible for the decisions we make in our own lives.” That is why there are so many “former” students and instructors. That is why this forum exists to begin with. All us “formers” trusted, and we all lived to regret it. I said it at the beginning of this post and I’ll state it again. You have never bought a franchise from Olaf and Doreen. So you didn’t know what happened when a purchase of this type was made. Therefore, your uninformed opinion is just that…uninformed (imo). No disrespect is intended here, either. Regards, MrE2Me2 Without prejudice E&OE

RD

RD and personal guarntee
RD, I think you are missing our point. The point is not that Piercy or Sparrow or whoever signed the personal guarntee. Everyone, including them, agree (now) that it was a bad idea. Again, you don't understant the situation in which the offer was made. The evil comes from first putting forward a contract like this to people who believe in you and trust you, and then following that up with betrayal. BTW it is the personal guarntee that resulted in Piercy, and probably Weber and Sparrow to declare personal bankruptcy. Think about it, if you were to buy a franchise, wouldn't you buy it within a corporation so that you did not have to declare personal bankruptcy? This is something you can look up in leagl records I am sure. These people had to declare personal bankruptcy. That is what also makes stories of Piercy removing money before he left extremely unlikely. On Swanstrom: I completely believe that he did not sign a 'personal guarntee'. After everything that has been posted on the forums would you sign one with Simon. Now, on the other hand, why would you believe Swanstrom's word that this guarntee did not exist for Piercy or Sparrow and others? Swanstrom certainly was not there with Piercy and Simon et al. Do you think that Simon would tell all? Again, you say we should call Swanstrom for clarification. Have you called Piercy, or Weber, or Sparrow, or Jones, or Terlecki, or...... for their thoughts. Grasshopper was Chief in more than one studio. He was there when this stuff went down, Swanstrom was not. Can you really just cast aside what he has told us. Again, for the record, I believe that we all agree that signing this document was a bad idea by the former owners. However, we are holding Simon accountable for first putting forward this document and then for his betrayal. I ask this seriously: why do you feel loyalty towards Simon. What has he ever done to prove that deserves your loyalty. that is not a loaded question, I just wonder why you feel that way.

Hello RD, You posted, “Correct me if I'm wrong, but neither have you…” I am the former President of Simon Kung Fu Studios Vancouver LTD (now bankrupt). I bought the limited company from L. Wayne Thomas. He bought it from Olaf and Doreen Simon. I have documentation to this effect. I was there when Trevor Higgs left SKS. I was there when Phillip McAndrews was named the heir apparent. I was there when Brian Leishman left for Calgary. I was there when Brian Leishman left SKS. A couple of years later I was there when the name was changed. It went from “Simon Kung Fu Studios” to “Temple Kung Fu”. As a matter of fact, I had a hand in changing it! (Consider the matter rectified.) I also said in my last post that I was talking of matters in the past. I heard from both Current Student and Vortexx. They have both said that the current administration at TKF does biz differently. I have no reason to discount that, and every reason to believe them. Now you can obfuscate about, as much as you want (concerning the past). (That is misdirect me and try to confuse me as much as you like.) But I was there when some of these things happened. Rainmann has answered more eloquently than I, about the “personal guarantee”. All I’ll say is Read His Post Again! You posted, “Getting back to the point I've been trying to make, no one but a fool would just blindly sign a legal contract that is going to affect their future, without reading and understanding it and accepting its terms.” You make my point for me. That is precisely why so many of us on this forum are so angry, bitter and grim! We behaved like fools and signed on (when we should have walked away)! We did so because we trusted our Grandmaster and his wife. We trusted! And now you come along to a New TKF and talk about things past. Things that you obviously know nothing about (first hand) and presume to judge us. It is not like me to lose my temper over the written word anymore. Especially about things past. But make a list of those who achieved black belt status with Mo and then left. M. Hilbig, E, Bateson, L.Bateson, D. Sheer, T. Higgs, P. McAndrews, … Well, the list can go on for a long time. No one has risen to defend this grandmaster (no one from his past). Not one, even though there is nothing to stop them. (And yes, I know at least one master of Mo who won’t rise to Olaf or Doreen’s defense.) Try that with GMEP on an American Kenpo Forum and they’ll jump all over you. Here, it is just another thread. That kind of animosity runs deep. Olaf Simon is a Martial Genius (in my opinion). But he and his wife are Not respected members of this community. And that is too bad. He could have been the “Father of Canadian Martial Arts”. People could refer to him the way they do to other icons (of martial arts). Yes, you read that right, “I said icons!” Instead, he is the object of intense debates that would get us banned from other forums. Regards, MrE2Me2 Without prejudice E&OE

canadian icon
Hey MrE Very well said. The part you say about how Simon could have become a Martial Arts icon is right to the point. The last few years have seen TKF go from 15 studios to 2 (I think those numbers are correct). When Grasshopper was chief in Mississauga, and Sparrow was regional, and Piercy was owner, the halls out here were packed for 3 skills per day. The studios looked like they were only going to grow more and more. From what I understand from you and others, Simon had already been betraying people before this. However, if he had turned his act around and fully supported Piercy, that organization could have been his legacy. Piercy was totally loyal to him. It would have been an incredible legacy. It is so sad that Simon would concentrate on what he thought were short term financial gains, followed by loss of so many studios, followed by having this organization on the brink of elimination. Wasn't there some Tample wall quote about the character of a man and his actions? Again, well said MrE

"Any man can stand against adversity, to test a mans true character, give him power" Forget who said it, think it was Abraham Lincoln. Was on the wall in of most studios at one time. Oh, the irony.

I don't understand fully what you guys are saying. Are you saying the reason for the colapse of the studios was because GMS had Master Piercy sign a personal guarantee? I'm not really sure how that factors in. And no, personal guarantees are not that rare infact they are quite common. The are used when an individual or a company with few assests sign a contract as a "guarantee" that the terms of the contract will be honoured. If you guys are correct that there was a personal guarantee and I have no reason to doubt you it meant that Master Peircy was personally on the hook to cover any debts accumulated by TKF. If he left TKF in the black and I believe he did why is this an issue. If he did leave TKF in the red then GMS could have legally gone after all of his personal assests in order to secure payment, if that was the case he should concider himself fortunate that GMS did not. I'm not sure what you think a personal guarantee is in legal terms but maybe you should look it up before you take somone elses assumptions as fact. And signing a contract is always a matter of trust, but I would never, never sign a contract without fully understaning it's ramifications. Master Peircy would not either.

Wow, I was unable to post for two weeks and meanwhile this thread has been flooded! I've got a lot to reply to... "Both of you made numberous comments about (a) how much previous instructors were paid and (b) how they were treated: who cares! If they didn't like the pay they should leave." And many of them did. We lost a lot of very good instructors (and many students with them) towards the end of Piercey's management. "If you buy a million dollar house and are making hefty mortgage payments to pay it off quick, then you don't have much extra cash. Once the mortgage is paid off, then things get good." You can always re-mortgage or lower your mortgage payments if you're short on cash. But Piercey, from what I heard, was nowhere near being short on cash. In any case, chasing away his instructors with low pay was one of the worst choices Piercey could have made.

"However, Simon used Weber, Sparrow etal (this is why they apologised to Piercy later, as Simon did the same thing to them) to oust Piercy." Weber and Sparrow were instructors under Piercey, nothing more. He could have fired them and kicked them out of his studios any time he wanted. How could they possibly oust Piercy? "So no one, other than Simon got to enjoy this." Umm, how did the Simons get to enjoy this? The studios were taken over by Sparrow and Weber. Piercey took all the money (his own money) out of the studios, so that the Simons had to put in a bunch of their own money to keep them afloat. Piercey, who had proved capable of running the studios successfully, was replaced by owners with no such proven qualification (and they ended up running the studios to the ground). Meanwhile, Piercey left very well off. So I ask again, how did the Simons get to enjoy this? After announcing him as their successor? After promoting him to the highest rank they've ever awarded anyone? After buying him a property in Grand Forks across from their own? "Again, you even state that Piercy was successful, then why would he leave? Why did Jones leave?" There are many potential reasons. Piercey made a lot of money, and maybe he thought that it was a good time to cash out. Maybe he just got tired of working so hard and decided to leave. Maybe he had a personal disagreement with the Simons and decided he didn't want to belong to the franchise any longer. As for Jones, he may have left so that he wouldn't have to pay franchise fees, or to get away from TKF's damaged reputation, or for any number of other reasons. Jones certainly left on his own. I haven't seen any evidence whatsoever to suggest even the possibility of him being kicked out. "Vortexx, please reread: Grasshopper was there." Sparrow and Jones were there too, and they both said that Piercey walked into the hotel room and pretty much said "that's it, I quit!"

"Ok, that's funny! I doubt if Simon ever gave anything away." Then obviously you haven't spent much time with him personally. "Remember the pebbles that Simon was selling from his property for $100!!!!" Never heard of it. Anybody who ever went to the Temple lands could bring back as many stones as they wanted, free of charge.

"Talk with Piercy, talk with Grasshopper or anyone else that has seen both sides, or at least the other side." I have heard both Piercey and Weber talk at length about their side of the story. I have read all of Grasshopper's posts (and I don't believe him to be that particularly informed either). I have spoken to a number of other instructors that were firm supporters of Weber and KFFL. So yes, I've heard the other side. I'm sure I haven't heard everything (not even close), but I'm sure you haven't either. "It would be far easier to respond to things that actually happened, rather than a supposition you draw based on lies you have been told." I would say the same thing to you.

"Piercy certainly didn't take the money - he went bankrupt - check the records." What? You've just been telling me about how successful Piercey was, and I don't doubt it. If his studios did indeed go bankrupt, the only way that could have happened is if Piercey took all the money of them, leaving nothing in his companies to pay the bills with. And being limited companies, Piercey made off with a pile of money (rightfully his money, of course). In effect you've just confirmed my point. "With a very active student base, why would 15 studios need $700 000????? Did they not get any income for a whole year?" Once again, they needed this money to continue operating because Piercey took all of the money out of his studios before abandoning them. "Your claim was that the studios were taking in around $14000 a month. Why would that change if Piercy left?" Obviously Weber and Sparrow were worse businessmen than Piercey. Most of the very good instructors had all quit by the time Piercey left, so the instruction started to go down hill. Weber raised instructors' wages only slightly, but nowhere near enough to keep them for long. Unlike Piercey, he neglected to train his instructors, and seemed to care very little about the success of his studios. He lacked Piercey's energy and ability to inspire his students and instructors. The number of students dropped off from 40 or 50 per class to like 4 or 5! For the most part it was Weber's own neglect or lack of business sense that left the studios bankrupt.