What is your history with TKF?
Grasshopper, I've seen your posts all over this forum. What is your history with TKF? You have spent more time here than anybody apparently.
I'll try to keep this short.
I started as a student at TKF in 1993, became a teacher in 1996. I quit in 2004 when I was an area supervisor.
I created this forum (templekungforum/ grasshopper are both me) as a place for honest discussions about TKF and GMS and the controversies surrounding him. This is the third or fourth forum dedicated to this subject if you can believe it. The original "TempleFraud" forum was the by far the busiest but is now gone. There are still the ones I posted above but they generally have no moderators or admins, so a lot of people taunt and flame each other on them, post doctered pictures of Simon etc. I am not a supporter of him but I don't support the slander that get's thrown at him either or opening a thread and having porn appear.
I presently am training Xingyi and Tai Chi, but I still maintain my Moh Kempo/ Pai Hu Shih knowledge as I feel there are many good things going for this style blah blah blah...
Some of you may wonder if I spend every free minute of my time obsessing abou this crap, well I dont. I sit in front of a computer at work for a large part of my day and the last few months have been fairly slow for me, so I have put all that spare time into this little project...
If this forum becomes popular that's great, that means there is still a need for people to search for their own truths or vent about what they feel is right. If it quitly fades away that would be great too, because then maybe we can all move on. I will add that when I regularly meet with x-TKF students/ teachers whom I taught/ trained with for years our conversations always comes back to Simon and his style/ history. Good or bad he has had an effect on many people...
grasshopper
(C. Charlton)
To all,
Here is a testimonial history.
It’s from someone who claims to be an early student of Olaf’s (1967-1969).
This is from the other forum and I have copied it verbatim.
I cannot verify its authenticity.
But it sounds true and I am of the opinion that it is true.
Regards, MrE2Me2
“Hi Everyone,
I am new to this forum however I can relate to some of the things discussed. I studied under Olaf Simon in 1967-1969. At that time it was called Simon Karate Studios. On the wall he had some certificate that said he was a 7th degree blackbelt. I don't know where he got it from bt on thinking back and comparing against what I know are 5th degree black belts, I would say he was much better than them in skill and knowledge. I know he generated some pretty god blackbelts in Calgary and Edmonton. Some names that come to mind are Randy Ness, Lyndon and Edward Bateson, Dwight Sher and there were many others. Dwight Sher was very good at tournament fighting and operated his own Karate school in Saskatchewan. I don't think he ever learned anything to do with Kung Fu, just pure Karate. I remember we did pretty well all of the forms I saw in one of Mas Oyama's books which were published at the time. Olaf Simon did speak of Tsuroka in Toronto and he did spend time in that city so maybe something was learned there. Definitely he was very talented. Lyndon Bateson him self generated some very excellent Karate practitioners such as Mike Pucket in Victoria and Stan Pederick a world level kickboxing champion. When I joined Margi Hilbig was also there. Classes were very disciplined and Olaf Simon always led the classes and sparred with everyone in the class. Their kicking skills were very good.
when I was there I heard that Simon's best student by the name of Heinz turned on him as soon as he was awarded his blackbelt. Apparently Heinz met some people from Hong Kung who were very good at Hung style. These people convinced Heinz that Karate was garbage. So after learning some Hung style Heinz challenged Simon to an all out duel. A while later the Hung style teachers themselves showed up at Simon's Karate studios and said they just wanted to talk. Then in the middle of the talk they tried to "Sucker kick" him with a low kick. However Simon dumped him on his head very hard. He got up shaking and they realized Simon was no pushover. So they left. After that he received no more threats from them. Olaf Simon also had a rivalry going with the Alberta Judo champion at that time who thought karate was useless. Olaf spent some time with some pretty hefty football players analyzing the effectiveness of some of his hits.
After these incidents Olaf Simon for the first time introduced what he called Moo Kung Fu which he said was a Northern style. He said it had 4 forms consisting of about 400 motions. He demonstrated one of those forms and taught this to a special clas. At that time there wasn’t this high fee program. I was studying in Edmonton at the time . I think this new Kung Fu development was started in about 1968. When Simon taught, he would teach many many things. Each lesson he taught a dozen or so new techniques against punches and kicks. The Kung Fu stuff definitely was not Karate, it seemed like Kung Fu actions put on top of a Kenpo base. However some of the footwork and hand actions were not from Kenpo either so I don't know where this stuff cam from. I heard he taught some people in China town some things he never taught at the studio. Perhaps he exchanged knowledge with someone there. Some of the kicks I saw Lyndon Bateson do resembled the kicks from My Jong Law Horn. They were very fancy flying spinning kicks which were countered using the same technique, namely jumping, spinning and messing with the technique using exact timing.
Olaf Simon was very exceptional at tournaments demonstrating sparring against four good blackbelts simultaneously, smashing 12 patio tiles, big ice blocks or perhaps one hard brick (not baked). Also he demonstrated knife defense by giving each of his students a knife in turn and having them attack him how they likes. He also used a sword to fo this but said this was a bit dangerous. He told he students that the breaking was just showmanship for business reasons and didn't recommend anyone learn this. However his student Dwight Sher also became a pretty good breaker. Dwight did compete also in the USA Karate tournaments and in one got his ribs kicked in with a spinning roundhouse kick yet he still managed to drive home. He used his Karate one day to save some guys life at a meat packing plant where he worked when someone was attacking a fellow worker with a large butcher knife.
I remember going to a Karate tournament help in Penticton. A blackbelt from another style sponsored it. His name was Emil Rpack, he was also very good. Him and Dwights Sher battled it out with impressive style and then Simon took the both of them on. The fights were pretty good. Back then there was talk of Bruce Lee and Joe Lewis the Karate champion. Simon said he figured he could still give Joe Lewis a run for his money. I think it was a fair statement and was not exaggerated. He didn't say he would win for sure but ponly that he was in his league.
At the end of 1969 we suddenly got new badges from Ed Parker's Kenpo studio. Apparently Simon tried to use Ed Parker's marketing approach. I think this was the time that Simon took a new path and decided to go into big business. At that time I moved to Toronto an started to study Hung style, later Tai Chi and later Wing Chun. From my studies I conclude Simon's Karate was top notch. His Kung Fu resembled a combination of Northern style something judging from the kicks and stances and other parts resembled Kenpo with it's millions of techniques on top of a Karate base.
Olaf Simon didn't think Bruce Lee was that good however his students all felt that Bruce Lee was good. I remember Lyndon Bateson copying Bruce Lee's moves from the show "The green Hornet" Everyone was impressed except Olaf Simon. - to be continued
Years later I saw some temple Kung Fu adds where Olaf Simon was on some bridge doing some wavy hand actions. When I saw this I thought, that's not the Simon I knew. It didn't look like a powerful Kung Fu or Karate and didn't resemble anything I saw hi do before. Still later I saw Olaf Simon using these strange titles. The whole thing seemed like a religious movement. When I think about the Karate days many students talked about Simon like he was a kind of god but then it was based purely on his fighting skill and not on his talk. By a god I mean the normal way Aikido students view their teacher's awhich I call treating them like they are some kind of God.
What Simon's base fighting style was, is hard to say . He wouldn't teach that. He just taught millions of actions and you never knew what his real fighting style was. I think he didn't have an easy time with the Karate because of opposition from Judo people, and others. Olaf was a big fan of Chinese martial arts. Although he was very proficient in the Japanese Karate he didn't speak highly of the Japanese the same I suppose as Bruce Lee and his ideas about the Japanese so it was nothing new.
When Simon did his patio block breaks, he would try for a maximum number let's say 12, they wouldn't break so he removed one and then he did it. His hand sometimes would look pretty bruised. In those days Olaf Simon would talk about Mas Oyama a lot and all the things he technically did wrong.
I think business pressures, maybe his divorce, his desire for wealth, maybe a power trip, the failure of maybe USA people to recognize him and many other factors probably combined to set him on this strange course. Definitely Simon succeeded in business. In the 70's various people created fortune's using underhand methods. In Wing Chun someone by the name of Leung Ting was even more successful making more than 10 million dollars teaching. But in each case something of value was taught.
I heard about Olaf Simon's marketing approach years later when I visited one of his "Master" students in Calgary. I forget his name. Anyway he was very open and honest with me and explained the various methods to keep students and to maximize the amount of money paid by each student. This person didn't like doing that so he split from Simon but still taught his basic stuff. He himself also made a considerable amount of money.
Now when I see Olaf Simon calling himself "His Holiness" I just can't relate to that. we just called him Simon or Olaf even to his face, at least his blackbelts did. But everyone did treat him with respect for his fighting. Simon taught one form that consisted of only elbows applied from al angles. He had many varieties of arm breaks that were not of Kenpo or Karate origin. Simon demonstrated a bit of Tai Chi once but when I later learned Tai Chi I knew it was just some hand actions without the Tai Chi base footwork and arm and body coordination.
In my view it seems that something happened to Olaf Simon to set him on this strange path. If it is not a cult, many things are very cultish looking. Simon has set himself up as sort of a Pope figure who is unapproachable by mere mortals - this is what I get from my very surface knowledge of him now.
I was disappointed at the various books he wrote. The book law of the fist shows some of the Karate he taught and includes the postures of what he called Moo style Kung Fu. He taught various breaks and locks out of those stances. The pictures are from the 60's when I was a student in Calgary and Edmonton.
I guess strange things happen to some people in their lives. Who knows what his thinking is. I read the court testimony of Olaf Simon and it also doesn't seem normal. It was very evasive and non specific. He was not at all like that in the 1960's.
I kind of think his stories of the origin's of his art are not true and were just some marketing gimmick. Many other people did that in those days including Wing Chun with it's made up story of Yim Wing Chun and the nun Ng Mui. In those days we just cared about fighting effectiveness and there was little mystical talk. That must have developed later.
From Ed Parker’s book about Chinese Kung Fu I can see that Ed Parker was familiar with a variety of Kung Fu systems. Him and Simon may have exchanged ideas. I don't think Simon learned his Kung Fu from Ed Parker, maybe some Kenpo. I don't think he learned anything from Ark Wong since his style was didn't resemble a true Southern style in my eyes. - too be continued
These are just my observations and thoughts, some of which could be wrong. Perhaps physical Simon couldn't keep up with his own 60's reputation and had to take this new tack to survive financially. Perhaps he just had this giant dream and this is his implementation of it. I doubt if any of the Buddhist origins and his lineage can every be traced. These things are usually a waste of time to check out.
I think maybe Olaf Simon doesn't have a complete Kung Fu system since he hesitates to write anything about it except talk of some temple which may have worked in the 70's but not now. The temple monks now are almost like circus performers. In Simon's old days the government in China outlawed real martial arts practice.
The White Tiger style was something that came after my time with Simon. I have no idea how that relates to his Moo style. The Moo style was taught the same way as Kenpo by teaching a dozen new techniques everyday with no real Kung Fu base of any kind. Real Kung Fu is generally taught in a very different way which doesn't lend itself to mass marketing and money making.
It's too bad Olaf Simon is no longer doing martial arts or has ever filmed his stuff. Maybe there isn't much to it except a large collection of isolated techniques. If Simon's origin's are true then there should be other people who practice a similar kind of art, I don't think there are other than the Kenpo people.
Yongchun”
Without prejudice
E&OE
