Congrats Mr. Grasshopper dood, and Mrs. Grasshopper doodette, and for gawds sake lets get Mr. Monkeybusiness on film... I never laughed so hard in my life... u nut!

To all, About my description of this “Instructors Belt”: (If I wasn’t clear about this to begin with, then please let me be so now.) In the late 1970’s, Simon Kung Fu Studio instructors often wore karate uniforms (gi). (Sometimes, the higher ranked ones would wear kung fu uniforms but not often.) Beginning students would wear white karate gi. Once they had been initiated into the Kung Fu Club, they were entitled to wear a black one. I even had a fellow student in Edmonton who would mix and match his white and black tops and pants. But this wasn’t allowed in Vancouver, although I had an instructor who had several different colored gis. The karate belts were white, yellow, orange, green, blue, three levels of brown and finally black. Sometimes those members of the K.F.C. would wear kung fu sashes (green, blue, red and white). But the instructor’s belt was a unique concept and it was designed with one idea in mind. It was to separate the instructor with a colored belt from the student and from the black belt instructor. During my time, the black belt was given such heavy emphasis. If it wasn’t the ultimate carrot, it was high on that list (of carrots). With this in mind: the “Instructor’s Belt” came into being. The “Instructor’s Belt “was a white karate cloth belt with a thinner black cloth belt sewn on the outside. The effect was a black belt with white edges that defined the wearer as a junior instructor. It also defined the wearer as a colored belt within the ranks of Moh. I hope this clarifies the issue somewhat. Regards, MrE2Me2 Without prejudice E&OE

Hello Yen Hui, You posted, “Just to be clear, the "full" black belt means he was a black belt, not a blue belt.” There is some controversy on even this point (no surprise there :-D ). Now I saw him wearing a black belt and when I asked, he said he had received it. Yet when I posted his name on the list, an heir-apparent I know told me Brian did not receive his black. As well, he has been practising and teaching what amounts to a version of Moh for over 30 years. And to make things even more complex, he has made certain changes to the system. So, in my opinion, he does meet the requirements of being a Moh Kempo black belt. But as I said, there is controversy on even this point. What is NOT controversial. Brian Leishman was either a full black belt or very nearly so when he left S.K.S. On that point there is no controversy what so ever. Sorry I couldn’t make these muddy waters clearer. Regards, MrE2Me2 Without prejudice E&OE

Thank you for the clarification, MrE2Me2. It seems that the TKF switched to instructor's sashes from instructors's belts at SKS. The interesting thing is that unlike the belt scheme you described, the solid black sash denoted a junior instructor while a black with white sash denoted a chief or senior instructor (although it's black on the outside with white in the middle). One thing that is beyond controversy, is that there was way too much controversy, politics, egos, and power struggles over the years in this system. I guess we are fortunate to live in interesting times! :lol:

Hello 92, About the instructor’s belts and sashes: I thank you too, for the clarification About the politics: Yeah…we are on the same page there, too. Regards, MrE2Me2

Hi there MrE2Me2 ~ The website is pretty useless now, if you ask me. IOW, it provides no useful information on the Founder. To clarify the above remark, I meant Leishman's website was useless only in regard to its providing any detailed info on either himself or his system; but that might have something to do with his daily practice of Hexagrams 33 and 36. I've not been back to the website lately to see if any further changes or additions have been made to it; but I am hopeful it will develop with time, and eventually provide us more information. He has been training and teaching Moh for a long time. He has gone his own way and made some serious changes along the way. For example (from forum member Denyuan): http://www.kineticrage.com/fb/Form2.mpg As well, he has been practising and teaching what amounts to a version of Moh for over 30 years. And to make things even more complex, he has made certain changes to the system. While artists may study the same classical techniques under the same teacher(s), their artistic expressions rarely look identical; though the many principles, strokes and techniques which they utilize can be clearly identified as classical in nature, and bearing the unmistakable influence of the same teacher(s). Yet, if they are fully matured artists, in their own right, then their styles are usually unique and expressive of their own minds, personalities, likes, dislikes, and adjustments. That is the nature and spirit of true art! Now I saw him wearing a black belt and when I asked, he said he had received it. Yet when I posted his name on the list, an heir-apparent I know told me Brian did not receive his black. I'm sorry, MrE2Me2, but I'm still a little confused on this. You saw him wearing a full or solid black belt in Edmonton. Now, in the SKS ranking system at that time, a full /solid black belt meant you were not a coloured belt instructor. Correct? If the solid black belt actually meant the wearer of it was a "full" black belt, then why was Leishman wearing it if he had'nt actually received it? What does the "heir-apparent", to whom you refer, say was the reason why Leishman was wearing a belt at the SKS that he had not yet received? What is NOT controversial. Brian Leishman was either a full black belt or very nearly so when he left S.K.S. On that point there is no controversy what so ever. Sincere thanks to you MrE2Me2 for a taking the time to clarify matters. As usual, it is much appreciated! (Btw, something really funky has happened to this thread formatting, on my monitor screen. For some strange reason, all the posts beginning half way through page 2 are located to the extreme right hand of the screen. I mean, I need to scroll as far over to the right as posible to see them. Is anyone else experiencing the same "funky" formatting anomaly? Thanks.) Warm regards, Yen Hui

Yeah, the 'eff'ed up formatting seems to happen occasionally. No way to fix it sorry :(

Hello Yen Hui, You posted, “While artists may study the same classical techniques under the same teacher(s), their artistic expressions rarely look identical; though the many principles, strokes and techniques which they utilize can be clearly identified as classical in nature, and bearing the unmistakable influence of the same teacher(s). Yet, if they are fully matured artists, in their own right, then their styles are usually unique and expressive of their own minds, personalities, likes, dislikes, and adjustments. That is the nature and spirit of true art!” I would concur with this. Nor would I limit it to Moh or to Kempo, either. I once read about Tae Kwon Do’s origins. Back during WW2 it started off as a version of Karate. I believe it was a version of Shotokan, if memory serves. Yet T.K.D. has developed into something quite different. You posted about Brian Leishman’s Black Belt status; “I'm sorry, MrE2Me2, but I'm still a little confused on this.” No problems, it is an easy issue to be confused about.; Let me try and clarify. One. I saw Brian Leishman wearing a proper black belt in 1978. He was wearing a Karate gi in the Edmonton studio. He said that he was now entitled to wear a black belt. He said that he was. Two. I talked to Master Terlecki a few months ago by phone. Both he and Brian Leishman started training at S.K.S. together. (This would have been 3 or 4 years prior to my joining in 1977.) Three. They both advanced through the colored ranks at the same rate. But Brian Leishman became an instructor before Master Terlecki. Brian Leishman was not a black belt when he first taught me. I know because I asked. Four. Master Terlecki said something else. He also said that Brian Leishman was never awarded his black belt. Five. Master Terlecki described how he was tested for his black belt. Suffice it to say it was a long, hard ordeal that left him exhausted. It also left him sure he was worthy of wearing a black belt. Six. Brian Leishman’s Moh Kempo teacher is now dead. So there is no other way to confirm or deny what happened So there you have some of this confusing mess. You posted, “…something really funky has happened to this thread formatting…” As Grasshopper said, sometimes it does that. Maybe we could look at it this way. Most threads are typed as though one were in a forward bow. This thread is posted as though we are in a leading horse stance. Therefore, it is rather like using hidden distance to post with. Half the width and twice the distance. (Woops, only half the distance, anyway.) ;-D Regards, MrE2Me2 Without prejudice E&OE

To all, Here is a tree for Kenpo Black Belts. http://www.kajukenboinfo.com/kenpofamilytree.html Ours has been drawn up by our very own Grasshopper. :-D http://www.zenshack.net/martialarts/mohfamilytree.pdf Regards, MrE2Me2 p.s. There is also this list of American Kenpo Black Belts. http://www.kenponet.com/flame/tree/p/ed_parker.html Similar in my opinion to this. http://templekungforum.14.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=66 Without prejudice E&OE

change is in the wind....