Neo chan: New Religion or Tax shelter?

Neo chan: New Religion or Tax shelter?
Now it's been a long time since I read any of simon's new Buddhism, except it was a synthesis of Western and Eastern thought. Western Religion Man is seperate from Nature Man is seperate from God Nature is seperate from Man Nature is seperate from God God is seperate from Man God is seperate from Nature Western Religion is an ethical standpoint, Good vs. Evil! Eastern Religion Man, God and Nature are not seperate things, they are all the same. Eastern Religion is the study of the "Energies" that transcend the dualities of good and evil. Eastern Religion comes from the Eternal, the timeless void. Taoists would call this "Wuji". From Wuji comes Taiji, taiji is considered a representation of the dualities, up and down, this and that, good and evil! I am not speaking of the Martial taijiquan but rather the philosophical concept of taiji. How does simon reconcile the fundamental diifferences of Western and Eastern thought to create this new "faith". Or is it just a shameless tax shelter that "uses" the more proper Religious schools of thought!

the way that is spoken is not the way? i beleive that he was moving towards the truth and away from traditional religious roles. there was an origional religion and what we have are only fragments of it. eastern religions are not the be all end all as neither are our western concepts of god.if anyone has synthesized a working system of eastern and western thought you would find it in the rituals of free masonry or the sufi rituals the gnostics also broke traditional roles and all these have deeply affected modern spirituality i think GMS was and is only pursuing that which we all seek to know who we are where we came from and where are we going. i myself am more intrested with finding god than finding religion.remember it is better to work on the clump in our own eye before we try to take the speck out of others. siddatha by herman hesse is an excellant book on true seeking(i think)

Organized Religion? That's probably the best way NOT to find god, or to have a religious experience. Gnostics, or those few souls that observe the Gospels of Thomas, (if there are any left) are similar to Buddhism/Hinduism and as a result far from Christianity, that's probably why the Christians had them slaughtered! :cry: Western Religions, (Christian, Judaism, Islam) all concentrate on the idea of duality, ie; good vs. evil, accept the good, reject the evil. An ethical viewpoint that clouds your opinion of everything! Eastern Religion concentrates on the transcendance that the dualities come from, good and evil are manifestations of the same source, as the eternal turns to the temporal, or as it moves from the timelessness into the field of time. I could go on and on, it's kind of pointless, Western and Eastern thought are mostly the same, it's just the interpretations that differ! Though if a Buddhist were to say that they were the manifestation of God, they would be right! If a Christan/Jew/Muslim were to say that, they would be a Heretic!

Oh! by the way, Hi Shannon!

Western Religions, (Christian, Judaism, Islam) all concentrate on the idea of duality, ie; good vs. evil, accept the good, reject the evil. An ethical viewpoint that clouds your opinion of everything! Eastern Religion concentrates on the transcendance that the dualities come from, good and evil are manifestations of the same source, as the eternal turns to the temporal, or as it moves from the timelessness into the field of time. DUALISM IN PHILOSOPHY AND RELIGION is an online article that has a few interesting things to say on this subject. One thing it points out is that "Manicheism" was the name of one ancient school of Western Gnosticism which the ancient Christian Church condemned for its heretical philosophy of Dualism. I think that the Christian response to this dualistic school of thought provides a small window into how it ultimately views all forms of "dualism", strictly speaking. Christianity does not view good and evil as complimentary opposites in the way that Taoism views yin and yang, for example. Yin and yang are said to complete each other, in a harmonious balance. Good and evil are anti-thetical, though, in a way that yin and yang are not, nor ever can be! For Christianity, evil will ultimately cease to be at some definite point! In Taoism, 'wu chi' is before 'tai chi' (yin and yang), and has no polar opposite, upon which it depends for anything. Likewise in Christianity, the Supreme Source of all has no polar opposite upon which He is dependent for anything! He is Supremely One and infinitely beyond all manner of separation and division. In his book entitled, Mysticism, Zen master and scholar D.T. Suzuki calls "the reader's attention to the closeness of Meister Eckhart's way of thinking to that of Mahayana Buddhism, especially of Zen Buddhism." Eckhart was a 13th century Christian monk, and Zen Master Suzuki describes Eckhart's mystical writing as true zen teaching! Eckhart's 'Divine Spark' in man is equivalent to Zen's 'original mind'. In regard to the Western counterpart to the Taoist energetic art(s), I'd recommend reading Eric Yudelove's Tao & The Tree Of Life.

Christianity does not view good and evil as complimentary opposites in the way that Taoism views yin and yang, for example. Yin and yang are said to complete each other, in a harmonious balance. I have taken the opportunity here to post below a random selection of passages gleaned from Wilhelm's edition of the I Ching, which express, in some form, the Neo-Confucian doctrine of effecting central harmony (or balance and harmony), both within the human heart and within society. Be sure to click "the Mean" link in quote #07. It was Master Leishman's firm conviction, as far as I understood it, that these teachings hold the ultimate key to the true mastery of the fist-art. During one Friday night KFC class, I distinctly recall his telling a group of us that he attributed his effective passage through the Chambers to his attainment of a state of "emotional clarity". Passage #28 below refers to 'emotional harmony'; while passage #29 says that disharmony indicates confusion. Consequently, 'emotional harmony' means, in effect, 'emotional clarity'. Such was his personal experience and interpretation of this ancient Neo-Confucian classic, as far as I'm able to presently recollect. 36 SELECTIONS FROM WILHELM'S I-CHING :- 01 - "When a man comprehends the divine ... he lifts his nature to the level of the miraculous." (p. 338) 02 - "Every human being can draw, in the course of his education, from the inexhaustible wellspring of the divine in man's nature." (p. 186) 03 - "The great man continues the work of nature in the human world. Through the clarity of his nature he causes the light to spread farther and farther and to penetrate the nature of man ever more deeply." (p. 119- 120) 04 - "The life of a man who has perfected himself is a bright light for the people of the earth, who look up to him as an example." (p. 208) 05 - "In order that his psychic nature may be transfigured and attain influence on earth, it must cling to the forces of spiritual life." (p. 536-537) 06 - "While K'an means the soul shut within the body, Li stands for nature in its radiance." (p. 118) 07 - "Yellow light is therefore a symbol of the highest culture and art, whose consummate harmony consists in holding to the Mean." (p. 120) 08 - "In relation to the spiritual realm, brightness means the innate light- imbued predispositions of man, which through their consistency illumine the world." (p. 537) 09 - "The real nature of man is likewise originally good, but it becomes clouded by contact with earthly things and therefore needs purification before it can shine forth in its native clarity." (Hex. 35, p. 137) 10 - "Often a man finds himself weighing the choice between various kinds of pleasures, and so long as he is not decided which kind he will chose, the higher or the lower, he has no inner peace. Only when he clearly recognizes that passion brings suffering, can he make up his mind to turn away from the lower pleasures and to strive for the higher. Once this decision is sealed, he finds true joy and peace, and inner conflict is overcome." (p. 226) 11 - "True joy must spring from within. But if one is empty within and wholly given over to the world, idle pleasures come streaming in from without. This is what many people welcome as diversion. Those who lack inner stability and therefore need amusement, will always find opportunity of indulgence. They attract external pleasures by the emptiness of their natures. Thus they lose themselves more and more, which of course has bad results." (p. 225) 12 - "The light of the setting sun calls to mind the fact that life is transitory and conditional. Caught in this external bondage, men are usually robbed of their inner freedom as well. The sense of the transitoriness of life impells them to uninhibited revelry in order to enjoy life while it lasts, or else they yield to melancholy and spoil the precious time by lamenting the approach of old age. Both attitudes are wrong." (p. 120) 13 - "A quiet, wordless, self-contained joy, desiring nothing from without and resting content with everything, remains free of all egotistic likes and dislikes. In this freedom lies good fortune, because it harbors the quiet security of a heart fortified within itself." (p. 225) 14 - "If evil is branded, it thinks of weapons, and if we do it the favor of fighting against it blow for blow, we lose in the end because thus we ourselves get entangled in hatred and passion." (p. 167) 15 - "Even a single passion still lurking in the heart has power to obscure reason. Passion and reason cannot exist side by side. Therefore fight without quarter is necessary if the good is to prevail." (p. 166) 16 - "Now it is the time of struggle. The transition must be completed. We must make ourselves strong in resolution; this brings good fortune. All misgivings that might arise in such grave times of struggle must be silenced. It is a question of a fierce battle to break and to discipline the Devil's Country, the forces of decadence. But the struggle also has its reward. Now is the time to lay the foundations of power and mastery for the future." (p. 251) 17 - "Penetrating reflection must not be pushed too far, lest it cripple the power of decision. After a matter has been thoroughly pondered, it is essential to form a decision and to act. Repeated deliberation brings fresh doubts and scruples, and thereby humilation, because one shows oneself unable to act." (p. 222) 18 - "The heart thinks constantly. This cannot be changed, but the movements of the heart - that is, a man's thoughts - should restrict themselves to the immediate situation. All thinking that goes beyond this only makes the heart sore." (p. 202) 19 - "Knowledge should be a refreshing and vitalizing force. It becomes so only through stimulating intercourse with congenial friends with whom one holds discussion and practices application of the truths of life." (p. 224) 20 - "The place of the heart is reached. The impulse that springs from this source is the most important of all. It is of particular concern that this influence be constant and good." (p. 124) 21 - "In the heart the divine nature is locked within the natural inclinations and tendencies, and is thus in danger of being engulfed by desires and passions. Here likewsie the way to overcome danger is to hold firmly to one's innate disposition to good." (p. 532) 22 - "The twofold clarity of the dedicated man clings to what is right and thereby can shape the world. Human life on earth is conditioned and unfree, and when man recognizes this limitation and makes himself dependent upon the harmonious and beneficient forces of the cosmos, he achieves success ... etc. By cultivating in himself an attitude of compliance and voluntary dependence, man acquires clarity without sharpness and finds his place in the world." (p. 119) 23 - "The mountain stands as the symbol of a stubborn strength that can harden into anger. The lake is the symbol of unchecked gaiety that can develop into passionate drives at the expense of the life forces. Therefore decrease is necessary; anger must be decreased by keeping still, the instincts must be curbed by restriction. By this decrease of the lower powers of the psyche, the higher aspects of the soul are enriched." (p. 159) 24 - "The perfected nature of man, sustaining itself and enduring, is the gateway of Tao and of justice ... The nature of man, which is perfected and endures, is the gateway through which the actions of man go in and out, and when man is in harmony with the teachings of the Book of Changes (I Ching), these actions correspond with the Tao of the Universe and with justice." (p. 303) 25 - "In life too there are junctures when all forces are in balance and work in harmony, so that everything seems to be in the best of order." (p. 245) 26 - "Movement in harmony with heaven" "is man's true and original nature." (p. 510) 27 - "The Book of Changes, correctly used, leads to harmony with the ultimate principles of the universe. The sages exalt their natures by acquiring the wisdom preserved in this book, and thus they arrive at harmony with heaven, which is high. On the one hand, the mind gains loftiness of viewpoint; on the other hand, the field of action is widened. This comprehensiveness gives rise to the idea of mores: the individual subordinates himself to the whole. Through such humble subordination, the sages arrive at harmony with the earth, which is low. Thus the individual enlarges his field of action. (p. 303) 28 - "Here we are shown how with the help of the fundamental principles of the Book of Changes it is possible to arrive at a complete realization of man's innate capacities. This unfolding rests on the fact that man has innate capacities that resemble heaven and earth, that he is a microcosm. Now, since the laws of heaven and earth are reproduced in the Book of Changes, man is provided with the means of shaping his own nature, so that his inborn potentialities for good can be completely realized. In this process two factors are to be taken into account: wisdom and action, or intellect and will. If intellect and will are correctly centered, the emotional life takes on harmony." (p. 295-296) 29 - "There are conditions of equilibrium, in which a certain harmony prevails, and conditions of disturbed equilibrium, in which confusion prevails. The reason is that there is a system (i.e. Program) of order pervading the entire world. When, in accordance with this order, each thing is in its appropriate place, harmony is established. Such a tendency toward order can be observed in nature. The places attract related elements, as it were, so that harmony may come about. However, a parallel tendency is also at work. Not only are things determined by their tendency toward order: they move also by virtue of forces imparted to them, so to speak, mechanically from the outside. Hence it is not possible for equilibrium to be attained under all circumstances, for deviations may occur, bringing with them confusion and disorder. In the sphere of human affairs, the condition of harmony assures good fortune, that of disharmony predicates misfortune." (p. 282-283) 30 - "Remorse and humiliation are the results of a deviation from the right path and consequently always require a reversal of attitude. One can avoid both by being constantly on guard in time. The point at which concern must set in, if one is to be spared remorse and humiliation, is that point at which good or evil has begun to stir in the mind but has not yet crossed the threshold into actuality. If at this moment one takes action and directs the movement in its germinal phase toward the good, one will be spared remorse and humiliation. If, however, a mistake has already been made, remorse is the psychological force leading to repentance and improvement." (p. 292) 31 - "Ordinarily it is best to go around an obstacle and try to overcome it along the line of least resistance. But there is one instance in which a man must go out to meet the trouble, even though difficulty piles upon difficulty: this is when the path of duty leads directly to it - in other words, when he cannot act of his own volition but is duty bound to go and seek out danger in the service of a higher cause. Then he may do it without compunction, because it is not through any fault of his that he is putting himself in this difficult situation. (p. 152-153) 32 - "Understanding the vanity of all things, one may put aside both hope and fear, and sigh and lament: if one is intent on retaining his clarity of mind, good fortune will come from this grief. For here we are dealing not with a passing mood ... but with a real change of heart." (p. 121) 33 - "If a man remains at the mercy of moods of hope or fear aroused by the outer world, he loses his inner consistency of character ... etc. Such experiences are not merely effects produced by the external world, but logical consequences evoked by his own nature." (p. 128) 34 - "It is important to be constantly mindful that one must be conscientious and consistent and must remain so. Only thus does one become free of blind impulse which is always harmful." (p. 181) 35 - "Every mood of the heart influences us to movement. What the heart desires, the thighs run after without a moment's hesitation; they hold to the heart, which they follow. In the life of man, however, acting on the spur of every caprice is wrong and if continued leads to humiliation ... etc." (p. 124) 36 - "He does not keep his heart constantly steady. Misfortune ... etc. An attitude not permanently in harmony with the demands of the time will necessarily bring misfortune with it. Confucius says about this line: 'The superior man sets his person at rest before he moves; he composes his mind before he speaks; he makes his relations firm before he asks for something. By attending to these three matters, the superior man gains complete security." (p. 165) In regard to the Western counterpart to the Taoist energetic art(s), I'd recommend reading Eric Yudelove's Tao & The Tree Of Life. The link in the above quote works, but you have to keep trying it, as it seems to have a low data transmission allowance, which blocks the site when exceeded. However, when you succeed at getting into the website, you need to scroll down half-way to see the reference to Yudelove's text, with a photo of Yudelove himself. In connection with Eric Yudelove's book, I'd recommend these two links as well, which open up a small window into the 'energetic arts' of the Western esoteric tradition(s):- 1 - SACRED SCIENCE INSTITUTE. 2 - The Works of Franz Bardon.

talk and idleness have much in common, thats why the art was introduced to get the monks out of their heads and off their bums we may be spiritual creatures but we are also physical beings. we could talk about philosophy and the arts without end but we need to do more than we need to think because the truth is only manifest through experiance, to much thinking will only lead to atrophy for me and to much chatting on line robs me of training time. enjoy the greycup everyone!!

Hello Yen Hui, I must confess that I started to read all of your post but I got sidetracked. You posted, “It was Master Leishman's firm conviction, as far as I understood it, that these teachings hold the ultimate key to the true mastery of the fist-art.” With respect, What you post is overwhelming in both size of post and scope of thought (to me). I tend to approach the fist art from a much simpler point of view. Hi there MrE2Me2, Thanks for an honest reply! I understand what you mean, and keeping it simple is really the best policy. I apologize for the length of the post, and I don't wish to give the impression that Master Leishman made it a habit to talk a lot about these Teachings. He did not. In fact, there is'nt much in the above list of quotes that he would actually teach to anyone below BB level. In fact, it is probably truer to say that if he discussed such matters at all, it was more often than not during his younger years; and that as he got older and wiser, and observed the general inability of the student body to apply such "ideas" in their practice, he became more and more reluctant to share them with anyone, below the Black Belt level. And when he did discuss them, later on, with persons, it was only rarely and selectively, with those who manifested some degree of receptivity to them. If it looked like someone was not receptive to the Teachings, as he would call them, then he would never force them. In reality, he was not into "conceptual" thought or discussion, strictly speaking! In fact, it would be true to say that he felt the I Ching is more a book for masters, than anyone else. In other words, he'd be more likely to say, in my opinion, that the martial application of the I Ching's Teachings would not really become clear to a person, in most cases, until after mastery. I mean by this that he believed experience was the key to understanding! For those who have read GMS's 'White Priest', and are familiar with what he says in there about "intellectual" thought, and its role or place in the pursuit of "enlightenment", within the fist-art, per se, I would say that it pretty much describes Master Leishman's own viewpoint. In that book, it is said or implied that the 'White Priest' never spoke when teaching the fist-ast, but that he taught merely by example. Think of the famous proverb of GMS's about how one is prepared (i.e taught) by one's master. That pretty much expresses Master Leishman's viewpoint, and he would probably have never talked much if we had been more receptive to learning strictly by example alone! Many kind regards, Yen Hui

Hello Shannon Harrington, You posted, “…the art was introduced to get the monks out of their heads and off their Bums…” You got that right. Still, without serious reflection, the fist art becomes mayhem, quite quickly. Regards, MrE2Me2

Hello Yen Hui, You posted, “I apologize for the length of the post, and I don't wish to give the impression that Master Leishman made it a habit to talk a lot about these Teachings. He did not.” It is cool and just so you know. When I learned from him in Edmonton, he was all about practice. Any explanations were short and to the point. He was always up but he did not talk philosophy. He practiced the fist art. Regards, MrE2Me2

When I learned from him in Edmonton, he was all about practice. Any explanations were short and to the point. He was always up but he did not talk philosophy. He practiced the fist art. Though I was not there, that was my understanding as well, just based on what little he told us of it, from time to time; plus I figured that you don't get your black belt in under two years by keeping your nose stuck in a book. Still, I'm inclined to think he was already starting by then, and probably even earlier too, to explore the traditional Shaolin philosophy from a variety of sources, before eventually focusing in on the I Ching, almost to the exclusion of everything else. This I know, in part, from a story he told us about a little private ritual he performed, at the beginning of his training, involving the I Ching Oracle; which event ultimately guided the focus and direction of his daily training. It is my belief that he regularly consulted the Oracle as to what he should focus on in his daily training, and the direction to take it in. He reached a point very early in his training where he realized there would be precious little time, if any, for philosophical study, if he was ever going to achieve his practical training goals within a reasonable time. So he narrowed his choices down quickly to a couple key texts, the most important being the I Ching. How he ever arrived at that fateful decision was never revealed to me, at least that I can presently recall. When he finally narrowed the choices down, though, to the I Ching, and a couple others, like Lao Tzu and Chuang Tzu, then I believe he began to commit as much of their Main Teachings to memory, and to recite them daily in practice and application. Due to their very deep and profoundly cryptic nature, I think he was inclined to view and treat the Sayings and Teachings, as koans in a way, with a function very similar to a traditional Zen koan, designed to shut down the conceptual mind, and awaken us to innate wisdom and inherent knowing. And at some point, the hidden light broke forth at high noon, as they say, bringing with it a new found clarity. All previous mysteries became clear within an instant, as they say! On the other hand, he also said, on one memorable occasion, that the learning process for him was simply a process of elimination, by way of extensive trial and error; until he had eventually eliminated all the false imaginings from his mind of how to understand and apply, within a martial context, all the laws or principles taught within the I Ching. What I have posted is only a very small portion of the teachings, which comprise, in a way, what I think were the essential core Teachings. However, as far as more practical principles within the I Ching are concerned, take a look at Hexagrams 22 and 33: or specifically the Principles of Grace and Retreat. Their potential for martial application is more readily apparent. According to his teaching, Hexagram 22, Grace, spelled out the Principle of Form; and Hexagram 33 spells out the Principle of a Constructive or Effective Retreat. It's martial application is self-evident, imho. In conclusion, I am appending here a few quotes from GMS's 'White Priest', which, if I were a gambling man, I would bet had a far-reaching impact on Master Leishman's own personal 'Neo-Chan' approach to "holistic" fist-art training. SEVEN WORDS FROM THE 'WHITE PRIEST' :- 01 - "The koan confrontations with their teacher consumed much time. It was here where the Master exerted quietly 'the Way'. The searching monk on the path of 'the Tao' (Truth) had attempted for an immeasurable time to acquire the state of 'wu' (satori) in which the 'no-mind' experience manifests itself through experience ... etc. The riddles provided by a koan, however, do not give such a solution. It is up to experience alone, that is, the self-experience of the student, to find 'the Way'. Therefore, the koan does not behave like a riddle. It will not solve the problem for the student; it will only point 'the Way'. The complexity of the teachings become more simple if they are not devoured by intellectual searching." ( 1st Edition, p. 58-59 ) 02 - "The harder you try to dissect a problem the more it remains a problem. As the many different portions divide from the original, others appear and demand the same amount of attention in order to resolve the problem. One might chase and chase a butterfly to find the path of truth and happiness being a truthful path only if it fulfills, otherwise it will continuously evade the pursuer. But then, one day in least thought over the matter, it will resolve itself by means of a bestowed enlightenment." ( 1st Edition, p. 51 ) 03 - "Being capable of sensing an opponent before the eye could detect him, to have this certain awareness over the rest of man was something which could not easily be brushed to the side." ( 1st Edition, p. 45 ) 04 - "The upper portion of their bodies was now ready for the exchanging of life force, unhampered by smothering material." ( 1st Edition, p. 21 ) 05 - "No word was ever spoken during the practice. Immediately after the sign had been exchanged the training began. Soft flowing movements with arms circulating were repeated over and over. The group had been standing in a low-riding horse position for a long time now, still with their arms moving, their lungs pumping air." ( 1st Edition, p. 23 ) 06 - "What is known as 'the chi' cannot be explained by words or by hinting at a state which remains highly imaginary for the one who has not experienced 'wushin'. One cannot invite the 'chi' or train it by repetition of movements nor by a secret formula which opposes the natural experience of it. Worst of all is the method which, by means of intellectual rhetoric, attempts to crystalize that which will remain profoundly dark for the one who is in dire search of it. The 'chi' is something which will happen to the one who practices without looking for it. The young priest knew this much from his master who had phrased a proverb for his student within a sort of koan: 'Having seen fear and destruction, having felt pain and sorrow, I was well prepared by my master.' " ( 1st Edition, p. 66 ) 07 - "The Old Tiger, the Ch'an Master, had told his pupil that personal experience is everything. To learn only by reading was equivalent to listening while having one's ears covered. No ideas are intelligible to those who have little backing through experience ... etc." ( 1st Edition, p. 18 )

Hello Yen Hui, You posted, “In conclusion, I am appending here a few quotes from GMS's 'White Priest', which, if I were a gambling man, I would bet had a far-reaching impact on Master Leishman's own personal 'Neo-Chan' approach to "holistic" fist-art training.” I would agree but I would also point out that the Moh Kempo system I learned, in part from Brian Leishman, had an enormous amount of intellectual material in it. Without this material, the system was not as complete. Moreover, this material was multifaceted in nature. For example; a committed move has many different levels of understanding. As well, there were technical sections and tactical sections and others too. I get what you are trying to say; that the martial arts as a strictly intellectual approach is ill advised and will lead to grief. But I also believe that a martial art without any explanations at all, is equally bad. In my opinion, The mental governs the physical but the physical is what counts, in the end. (That reads well to me but I don’t know if it came out all right.) Regards, MrE2Me2

Mr E2Me2 The mental governs the physical but the physical is what counts, in the end. (That reads well to me but I don’t know if it came out all right Reads okay to me. shawn

Hello Sifu Shawn, You posted, “Reads okay to me.” Thank you…I appreciate the feedback. Regards, MrE2Me2

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