Mo Kempo Black Belt Family Tree

RE Current Student
"DaveS wrote: This discussion illustrates one of the key problems with the TKF mentality: "If you're not with us you're against us!". Many of us trained there for many years, were pHS members, had dinner together on Friendship night once a month on Fridays, and spoken to as "brothers", etc. And what happened when you left to move on? You may has well never existed. There was a consistant anwser when a master or instructor moved on: either no explanation or they were the source of the problems and now things would be better. This happened for the entire 9 years I was there. I see it still hasn't changed. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Can you please explain to me how in the world you get all this from me not seeing any value in this endeavour? Some how that get turned into me saying everyone is a traitor? How does that work? Or where did I say that." Take a chill pill Current Student. I'm not putting this on to you: it existed long before you came into the picture and it still exists today. Ya I know, let me say it for you: "The new TKF has changed..." Sure, whatever. Go ask Simon, Crossman, whoever if they endorse Jones and Sparrow or Culthbert, etc now that they're out of the fold. Then get back to me. Like I said before...I call them like I see them.

Hey Current Student, Quite the know it all, you are. I do not think the guy posting as " Ex-Student" on the other forum is Bagwell. Are you trying to start another witch hunt? Do you have an issue w/ me trying to explain the facts? Or are trying to belittle me in some way? I have had a converstion over this forum (maybe the other one). I do remember your fondness for twisting words. Unless you can provide some FACTS I don't want to hear from you. You seem quite content to create your own reality. As is typical of the TKF peons. J.K.

I'm can only go by the fact that at one point he said he was. I know also at one point several people used that handle.

OK I take it back you aren't a friend of his I guess.

Re: RE Current Student
"DaveS wrote: This discussion illustrates one of the key problems with the TKF mentality: "If you're not with us you're against us!". Many of us trained there for many years, were pHS members, had dinner together on Friendship night once a month on Fridays, and spoken to as "brothers", etc. And what happened when you left to move on? You may has well never existed. There was a consistant anwser when a master or instructor moved on: either no explanation or they were the source of the problems and now things would be better. This happened for the entire 9 years I was there. I see it still hasn't changed. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Can you please explain to me how in the world you get all this from me not seeing any value in this endeavour? Some how that get turned into me saying everyone is a traitor? How does that work? Or where did I say that." Take a chill pill Current Student. I'm not putting this on to you: it existed long before you came into the picture and it still exists today. Ya I know, let me say it for you: "The new TKF has changed..." Sure, whatever. Go ask Simon, Crossman, whoever if they endorse Jones and Sparrow or Culthbert, etc now that they're out of the fold. Then get back to me. Like I said before...I call them like I see them. OK sorry. I just took exception because you and Mr E were saying that my opinion is TKF opinion, which it is clear in this case it is not. For the record Jones and Sparrow are still in good standing as far as I know. They went their own way hope they do well, i think the current owners feel the same. I certainly like them both I haven't heard Mr Swanstrom trash them. I personally beleve either of them could come back if they wanted or if they visited town they'd be welcomed. But of course that's my opinion again, not official TKF policy.

My point exactly. When did he say he was "Ex-Student"? Making stuff up again? Seriously, any discussion w/you degrades into a battle of wits w/ an unarmed opponent. Do you have a point to make or are just being inflamatory? I will take further posts on your part as brain dead reponses dictated by the party line. You listen to no common sense posted here. You deserve what you have. J.K.

Hello Current Student, I get that you are expressing your opinion (I hear you): just as I heard RD and Vortexx. I also heard Grasshopper, as a matter of fact; I heard everyone and read their postings. Then I thought long and hard before I posted my rant. Unfortunately, I stand by it. Also I stand by what DaveS has said, “The TKF mentality: "If you're not with us you're against us!". I had really, really hoped that that particular attitude was gone. Nor do I believe that the students of Mo are alone in a struggle with this attitude. I have read and heard many different stylists engaged in this debate /argument. I have said my piece and I have listened when you have said your piece. I want you to know that I consider your opinions here. They matter to me, even when we disagree and even when tempers flare. It would be a loss to this forum if you left. Just as it would be a loss to this forum if I knuckled under to opinions I disagreed with. And that would be anyone’s opinions (anyone at all). So here is what I propose: You say your piece and I’ll say mine. On this issue; we’ll agree to disagree. Fair enough? Regards, MrE2Me2 Without prejudice E&OE I accept. If in the future you do not lump my opinion in as some sort of TKF collective. I accept you have your own opinions and do not lump you in, please extend the same curtesy to me.

"I accept. If in the future you do not lump my opinion in as some sort of TKF collective. I accept you have your own opinions and do not lump you in, please extend the same curtesy to me." It is real hard to do that when you show nothing but blind allegiance to your "masters" Your opinions in the past have shown you to be competely invulnerable to reasonable discussion. sincerly J.K.

RE Current Student
"OK sorry. I just took exception because you and Mr E were saying that my opinion is TKF opinion, which it is clear in this case it is not. ..." FYI, I never once made a single comment about YOUR opinion. My conclusion was drawn from : 1) 9 years of training at TKF 2) The reaction to the Ontario closures and the emails sent out by the "loyalists" who claimed to be in constant contact with the group out west (your group) and the Simon's. I can appreciate loyalty but the pro-TKF faction takes this to the point of being close-minded/ brain-washed. We were all there at one point but looking back on the whole experience and listening to active students is a reality check. Anyway, my comments and point of view are really starting to get off topic so I'll leave this alone. My original point was merely an observation about a "family" tree and how Simon has a habit of "disowning" his family. Can't argue with history.

about belts being given out
Gentlemen/Ladies On the topic of Black belts being given out.....some justifiable...some not without that I go into too much detail...I carry in my bag, three belts with significant meaning to each. they are as follows: 1) White Belt - I will always remeber my humble beginning 2) Black Belt - It makes me think about my White Belt 3)2nd Degree Black Belt sent to me from "head office" while being asked to own a studio or two - this one I carry to remind me that for some, it is not about the Art...only the money. Such a shame. I guess a belt can be meaningless afterall.

Perhaps you should read the other posts. I have been in an arguement with an anti-tkf guy, an arguement with someone who thinks that tkf can be useful with the addition of other kung-fu styles and of coarse I have disagreed with a certain pro-tkf guy. Now I have stated IMO why temple is not Kung fu, yet not one pro-tkf guy even bothered to respond. I have done this without name-calling or being derogatory, as if calling tkf karate is derogatory! I have even changed my attitudes towards the Moh system, largely due to the efforts of MrE2Me2. I like what he has done, simplifying Moh to an effective more karate-ish type system. That's because Moh is a more karate type system, the soft aspect of the system IMO is weak, largely because simon tried to make the system softer and I can say he probably has little to no knowledge of the principles involved. Temple motions, please, it is not kung fu, personally I think MrE2Me2 is taking Moh in the right direction. Other teachers have used different influences, so I won't comment on them except for the fact that the system has to be adapted to make it work! Hardly a ringing endorsement!

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