Karma of teaching Kung Fu
I have been doing alot of thinking of late about the reality of teaching Kung Fu and it's impact on peoples lives. Is it really a good thing? I tell myself that we are teaching people how to defend themselves but in reality we are also teaching them how to hurt others. It is true that if they had the intent to hurt others they would find a way to do it without the training however the confidence that comes from training makes people more daring and lets them know they CAN hurt people and exactly how they can do it. It removes any doubt. I know we all screen our students as best we can, but the key there is "As best we can." Also, people change. That 17-24 year old boy who is gentle and meek could turn out to be a drug addict or ragaholic. We are human and our ability to judge character is only so good. On top of that our students always show us the face they want us to see. The same as we all showed the faces we wanted our teachers to see when we were students only. I am not saying we were deceptive, but that anyone can behave for short periods when they know it is important in order to get what they want. Everyone is extra polite to their Sifu, boss, lawyer etc etc. If you teach someone Kung Fu and they go out and use it to hurt another person who doesn't deserve it; if they use it to humiliate an innocent person or any other cruel deed does that not go against everything we stand for? We can preach the morality to our students but in the end they are their own people. I have been thinking about this for awhile now, and decided to post about it to perhaps get some insight from others in similar shoes. Are we sure we are doing the right thing? Should we even be concerned with it? I do believe in Karma, and if I am a part of teaching violence then I am building up some negative karma wouldn't you think? Of course there is the scenario of perhaps a student avoids being raped because of her training, or a knife attack avoids being fatal because of the training, but I haven't had a student come to me with a story like that yet. I ussually see the people walk through my doors AFTER something horrible has happened to them. Given my current thoughts I feel a bit like a gun merchant. Sure it's not the gun who kills people, or the gunshop owner, but the guy who makes guns available certainly has a hand in what happens next from a karmic standpoint for the simple reason that I could always choose to not teach people how to hurt each other. Alot of these thoughts stemmed from reading Shi Yan Ming's book the Shaolin Workout. Kung Fu is supposed to be about artistic expressionism and forging a healthy, vital body. Nowhere in his book does he mention "This technique is great for snapping a persons ankle or crushing their windpipe." The attitude of looking at Kung Fu from a combative perspective is something that TKF was huge on, but perhaps that is the biggest way in which they betrayed the art? "He who betrays the art will be betrayed by it." It certainly seems like TKF has had some bad karma delivered unto them. But why? Anyhow, I don't want to go too far off topic. I just have been bothered lately by this thought. I have told myself, "There are thousands of schools, if I don't teach them, the next guy will." But that's something a drug dealer could use as an arguement also. It doesn't make it right. So please, share any thoughts you have on this. Students and instructors alike. I am only one mind and on this riddle I would like some feedback and opinions. Agree or dissagree, I just want to have some more sources on this subject.

Hello, North. That's a profound question. I don't even think there is a single right answer to it, everyone needs to find their own. One of the first things that struck me when I started training and have progressed enough to see it, was how powerful, yet at the same time how fragile a human body was -- how easy it was to inflict damage on someone, how little it took to get hurt or to hurt. It was an odd paradox of how much one was able to generate and absorb, while at the same time how vulnerable one was. For a long period of time I have actually ceased training almost completely, in part due to the same philosophical question of conceptual violence being taught. Then one day I just felt that I had to go back, I was ready and wanted to train again. Over time I have become conscious of why I trained and what I loved about it. Originally it was my parents' idea to get me started. I liked it, it was cool, got me into shape, helped release stress, and was fun while it lasted. When I came back, it was because I was really ready and wanted to train again, and on some level, not entirely conscious yet, I knew why. I came back because I loved the sweet feeling in my body the morning after a good workout. I came back because every time I entered the studio, regardless of how long it has been since my last time, the place felt like home. I came back because of the positive spirit, support, and camaraderie I have felt every time I was there. I came back because I have loved the instructors, their wit, their fitness and skill, their support and encouragement. I came back because I have decided that it was not about the violence, but about all the work, respect, and experience of training, with self defence being a bonus. I came back because I wanted to work on all the things in my self that I could evolve through the training -- physical, mental, spiritual. I came back because of the fitness, because of the fun, because of the training "family", because I had a purpose in training. Over the years I have come to realize how much more there is to it than even that. I love to see the excitement in the eyes of new students when they see something "cool" for the first time. I love that there is still so much I can learn and improve on, and that I still keep coming across "cool" new stuff. I love those light bulb moments when all of a sudden you see a few seemingly separate and familiar things click together and all of a sudden you see a much bigger, simpler, and elegant picture of how it all fits together and works. I love learning new stuff and taking the stuff learned before to new levels. I love sharing my experience with others and seeing it help take their understanding and skill to new level. I have come to appreciate every day that I train because for a long time I did take it for granted, and suddenly so many people I loved to train with and learn from are gone, so many opportunities have not been used. I have come to see how much I have personally grown and matured in large part through this training -- respect, confidence, responsibility, leadership, and I have seen so many others grow through this art. I train because through all the good and bad years, the training gave me so much and has been such a positive experience, that I want to take part in helping create this experience for others, and as I help to inspire others, I inspire myself. Self defense is a bonus. And violence? Never had an urge to hurt anyone, so I did not, and do not expect to in the future. I have never had to defend myself, and am probably less likely to have to than without the awareness that came from the training, but if I ever do, I know I am better prepared for it. As the quote in the old hall used to say "One must never seek out a confrontation, but one must learn not to fear one either." I also do know people who have had to use their training for self defense, a couple of them are probably alive today only because of it. Literally, the word "Karma" means action. As I understand it, Karma is the cycle of action and reaction, causes and consequences, literally it describes the cycle and process of life. The same wisdom is found in "you reap what you sow", "what goes around comes around", "like attracts like", "those who betray the art will eventually be destroyed by it", and "what you send out into the universe returns to you multiplied". Life mirrors our energy and level of consciousness because that's what we create around us. If we are oblivious to why things are happening, we cry "woe is me", if we are conscious of the process we can learn from what is reflected and evolve. Karma is not about earning punishment for "bad" deeds or rewards for "good" ones, it describes the fact that we always experience result of ALL our thoughts and actions and have an opportunity to learn and evolve from that. Any knowledge is power, and with any knowledge comes responsibility to use it wisely. As humanity evolves, it becomes aware of and is able to harvest the results of more and more knowledge, and as we expand the frontiers of science, we expand the frontiers of ethics, responsibility, cooperation, our sense of right and wrong. We can split atom and generate energy to either power a city or destroy it. We can fly in an airplane to travel and visit places and people thousands of miles away, or we can use them to ram and destroy skyscrapers. You can put your family in your car and go have fun, or you can load it with explosives and blow yourself up trying to inflict as much damage and pain as possible. It all comes down to responsibility and choice, martial arts are no different. One can train for fun, health, fitness, self-defence, and artistic expression, or one can train to be able to hurt someone. It comes down to one's level of consciousness. I would guess that over 99% of the Earth population is not trained in martial arts, and yet those who want to hurt others don't seem to have any difficulties in finding a way to do so. And there are cheaper, easier, faster, and more efficient ways of hurting people nowadays than spending years getting good at Kung Fu. True, there will always be those who misuse their training, but I think they are few compared to those who will benefit themselves and the society as a result of it. In a way it does seem that those who make knowledge or a weapon available to others are partially responsible for how it is used, but then if you extend this reasoning, then all mothers are responsible for the crimes their children choose to commit when they grow up. If you extend this reasoning, then Jesus, who spent his life trying to pass on a message of love, tolerance, and personal empowerment, is responsible for all the crusades, inquisition, and all the other atrocities that were committed in his name over the centuries. Take any religion, God, or belief. Everything committed in its name, good or bad, was a choice of those who did it, regardless of whether it matched the original intent of that belief. Even communism started out as an idealistic dream, but humanity is not ready to live like that yet, not by a long shot, and you can't force a consciousness change. How many countries tried to enforce prohibition? Did that stop alcoholism and consumption of alcohol? No. Consciousness change needs to come from within. One can be forced to conform and pretend for a while, but it will not last. I think the most important question is why do you train, and why do you teach? How do you choose to use your knowledge and art? You can only be responsible for your own intent, choices, and actions. What is your intent in teaching the art? If you are doing it with honor and integrity and it's your passion, than I would say it's "good" karma. Being irresponsible, not doing your best to screen your students to make sure (as much as is possible under the circumstances) that they are mature enough not to misuse the knowledge, inflaming people's egos, anger, and aggression while giving them the tools to hurt, that in my view is "bad" karma. We are not responsible for other people's choices, but we can help create more favorable conditions either way. Also, I believe the higher our consciousness regarding this, the less we will attract those who are not aligned with it, and the easier it will be to spot this. Likewise, more irresponsible, unscrupulous, and violent teachers will find more "thugs" gravitating towards them and sticking with them. That's my thoughts on the subject. Sorry for making this so long, you posed a thought-provoking question.

Hello North, This is an excellent topic! You posted, “I have been doing alot of thinking of late about the reality of teaching Kung Fu and it's impact on peoples lives. Is it really a good thing?” Yes, provided that I do my best and insist this from my people. And it isn’t always easy but if I wanted easy, I wouldn’t be a Martial Artist. I had to learn that it isn’t my place to save the world. It is my place to save myself and assist those around me. You posted, “I tell myself that we are teaching people how to defend themselves but in reality we are also teaching them how to hurt others.” This is true and as much as sometimes it is uncomfortable; it is supposed to be uncomfortable. It should be both important to be aware of danger and a reflex to fight back when necessary. Without serious training, awareness will not develop nor good effective reflexes. A lot of my training and teaching is about “why”. Why do I use only this much force or why do I fight at all. Some people can fight at the drop of a hat and will drop their own to start one. Neither I nor my students tend to be that way. More, since I am known, if I strike back, I can expect a visit form the local L.E.O. I have found it best to train with this eventuality in mind. This also means that my training is based around equal force and necessary justification. These two principles are central to my art. You posted, “I know we all screen our students as best we can, but the key there is "As best we can." I know of several instances of instructors not doing this to their peril. But the one that comes to mind the best is as follows (no names for obvious reasons). This fellow becomes a Black Belt and opens a school. Not satisfied, he leaves it in the hands of his top student and expands his knowledge. Ten years later (or so), he comes back as an expert in counterinsurgency techniques and tactics. And this guy is good as well as experienced and he opens a bodyguard academy. To get in, one must go through a rigorous screening process by the guy, as well as by the federal police. Eight students apply and pass this screening process and he trains them. A number of years later, they ambush a visiting foreign dignitary and kill him. They were caught and convicted but the guy who taught them closed his academy. One can do everything right and still fail. You posted, “Also, people change. That 17-24 year old boy who is gentle and meek could turn out to be a drug addict or ragaholic. We are human and our ability to judge character is only so good. On top of that our students always show us the face they want us to see. The same as we all showed the faces we wanted our teachers to see when we were students only. I am not saying we were deceptive, but that anyone can behave for short periods when they know it is important in order to get what they want. Everyone is extra polite to their Sifu, boss, lawyer etc etc.” I have thrown out people when they have shown their willingness to engage in their darker passions. And I know of at least on Moh master who has done the same. I’ll give someone the benefit of the doubt but if they cross that line, I’ll let them know directly. If they cross it too much or again, they are gone! You posted, “Are we sure we are doing the right thing?” I believe that this is a question we should ask ourselves regularly and unflinchingly. You posted, “Of course there is the scenario of perhaps a student avoids being raped because of her training, or a knife attack avoids being fatal because of the training, but I haven't had a student come to me with a story like that yet. I ussually see the people walk through my doors AFTER something horrible has happened to them.” Ah…I have had several of my students come to me with hair raising tales of survival against odds. For me, this has made all the difference in the world. You posted, “Given my current thoughts I feel a bit like a gun merchant. Sure it's not the gun who kills people, or the gunshop owner, but the guy who makes guns available certainly has a hand in what happens next from a karmic standpoint for the simple reason that I could always choose to not teach people how to hurt each other.” Actually, an ethical merchant is of vital importance. Teaching what you know also includes the ethics that go behind it. To not do this is to abdicate this responsibility to some else (someone possibly less qualified). You posted, “Alot of these thoughts stemmed from reading Shi Yan Ming's book the Shaolin Workout. Kung Fu is supposed to be about artistic expressionism and forging a healthy, vital body.” I take to heart what he has said about artistic expression and health...now. Yet I originally got into training for self defense purposes and my early training was fear based. It is only now that I can “walk my talk” that I look towards art and health. I still find that my training is based around self defense and I’m good with that. A large part of my artistic expression is about applying practical and simple combative strikes. Moreover, Shi Yan Ming is a fearsome fellow who has achieved what few others have done. He has escaped from a totalitarian country with a history of human rights abuses. He has started teaching very traditional kung fu in North America to foreigners. He does as he pleases and takes no nonsense (and I respect him for that too). You posted, “The attitude of looking at Kung Fu from a combative perspective is something that TKF was huge on…” It is my opinion that this was a marketing scheme and it certainly worked in my case. If I hadn’t been so keen on self defense then I would have looked elsewhere. You posted, “It certainly seems like TKF has had some bad karma delivered unto them. But why?” I believe that you are correct here. But it is my opinion that this “bad karma” has an awful lot to do with treachery and paranoia. It was the politics of the management staff and focus of the biz on money which created such turmoil. I mean, look at “Thunderbolt” Chow and his legacy. He was responsible for teaching the creators of American Kenpo and Kajukenbo. And he himself created Kara-ho Kenpo. There are literally millions of his students around the world today. But his life was one tough and hard tale. It made him one tough and hard fellow too. Yet his entire existence was about martial arts. He lives on, even today. And although I do not practice his form of Kenpo, I do practice. I am as much inspired by him as I am by fellows like Shi Yan Ming. Lastly you posted, “…if I don't teach them, the next guy will. But that's something a drug dealer could use as an arguement also. It doesn't make it right.” What you say could also apply to being a drug addicted prostitute, a policeman or a head of state. Honor, courage and strength make ones activities correct. It is the intent and the explanation, as well as the action which determine merit (or lack thereof). Regards, MrE2Me2 Without prejudice E&OE

Very nice answers guys. Thank you! 92 "I think the most important question is why do you train, and why do you teach? How do you choose to use your knowledge and art? You can only be responsible for your own intent, choices, and actions. What is your intent in teaching the art? If you are doing it with honor and integrity and it's your passion, than I would say it's "good" karma. " My intent in teaching the art was/is to further my own training. Left to myself I tend to focus on the more advanced knowledge. Teaching keeps me doing every part of every style so that my skill grows constantly in all areas. Teaching is the greatest way to improve yourself. I love teaching for alot of reasons. Seeing a student able to do some act of coordination that was previously impossible to them is very rewarding. Seeing the excitiement on their faces when I tell them we are doing a new form, or the look of awe when we do a complex technique for the first time. The rewards are huge, but my concern was about the right vs wrong standpoint. I believe in karma and if I am doing something wrong I truly know it will come back at me. Not punnishment, just the natural order of things. How do I use my knowledge and art? There is the rub that actually opened this entire door... I am not the best example of a well disciplined person when it comes to tempers. I have many stories of situations where my training changed what would have happened. I am the sort of person who will fight at the drop of a hat, though I don't pick fights, I just have no patience for fools and if I see someone who I feel deserves a beating I will let them know I feel that way and let the chips fall where they may. An example: I was walking to my car at the local university. I saw 3 guys throwing gravel at 2 other guys in the parking lot. I had a few minutes to observe these thugs bullying the others and it irritated me. I should have walked to my car and drove away but instead I passed by one of the "villians" and gave him a quick little elbow in the ribs. He of course turned with a "What the fu$%!" which I responded to by shoving him to the ground quite quickly. His 2 friends rushed over and the other two who were being bullied scattered thus leaving me alone with the 3 bullies. They told me that I was an idiot (And I was) and they proceeded to let me know how bad they were going to beat me up etc if I didn't run that moment. I told them I wasn't going anywhere and then grew angry and asked for clarification on the fact they intended to fight me 3 vs 1. if they had said yes I was going to hit them first, hard and instantly, however they hesitated. In hindsight they probibly thought I had a knife or a gun or something as they grew nervous and eventually after a long awkward moment one said "Hey lets go find those other 2 guys and kick their ass!" They then turned and left. I am lucky to be alive truly. If 1 of them had a knife, or any number of scenarios etc etc I could have ended up dead or at least well beaten. It was completely foolish to not avoid the so easily avoidable conflict. But for some reason it's not in my nature to ignore these things. I could tell at least five or six more stories like that one. I am never the bad guy in them but I am not practicing caution, control of my emotions or restraint. The training has not given me that self control. in fact if I wasn't trained to the extent that I am i would probibly have a measure more fear and would avoid these situations. NOW, knowing myself and the effects the training has had on me, I turned my thoughts to my students. I tell them the same things I was told. "Never seek out a confrontation" yada yada. But they are going to make their own choices just like me. If one of them is killed because his kung fu gave him false confidence it would to some extent be my fault. (And some have lots of confidence but not so much skill.) Likewise if they kill someone else, and they all know how to do that, then that too is somewhat on my hands. I understand now why the masters of old would have a student stretch and hold horse stances for years before teaching them anything else. Being flexible and having a good strong stance doesn't make you a danger to anyone but it gives you a powerful foundation for your future training. It also gives the teacher years to get to know the student before showing them more violent things. If I were to take that approach to teaching I don't think I would have many students if any. My solution at the moment is to teach people how to master their own bodies rather than being so focused on ruining someone elses. I provide dexterity and coordination techniques and work them towards being able to perfect them. I don't show the "This is how you break ______ bone when a person grabs you." etc. I have completely moved away from that. Well.... not completely but I am trying. ;) BUT, the sparring is important. It is also important to be practicing the Kung Fu with full violent intent during the sparring to make sure that is how a person will fight when they have to. There is no way I can tone down the sparring without diluting the abilities of my students and thus myself also. Likewise I cannot restrict the sparring to only advanced students or I ruin one of the best teaching tools for making new students learn how to break human instinct habits that are counteractive to proper self defense. SO I guess I teach and train a very combat oriented style, yet I have become uncomfortable with this fact. There is the combat and there is the art. I value both but only fear the violence. I appreciate the above posts. MrE2Me2 and 92 both have given me alot to think on. I do believe perhaps I am making a bit too much out of this in my own mind. I guess I am growing weary of the violence in my style of training yet I don't want to lose the skill and method that it keeps me conditioned for. I want to give my students what they pay for but I don't want to be responsible for anyone else being a victim because of it. So I am sort of trapped. Now I am wondering why this never bothered me before now... I have been teaching for 7-8 years now and the only other time I can recall having these sort of thoughts was when I first started. I was speaking with Mr. Hanly and I made some comment about this topic, I cannot remember how I worded it but I remember his answer. He said: "I don't want to turn someone away just because they seem like they might use the art for the wrong reasons. I would rather teach them and change them into the sort of person who WON'T use the art for the wrong reasons." That answer kept me satisfied for many years I guess. but now I am not so certain I can have that much of an ethical impact on people. As 92 said, learning how fragile the human body is also makes you realize how easily you yourself can be hurt. Lately I have been telling students things like "If you do use your kung fu and defend yourself, there is no promising that the person you beat won't come back and find you later when he has a gun etc." Anyhow, I will continue to ponder this one. I loved the first two posts, don't appologize about the length 92, I enjoyed every word of your reply. I hope we can continue to chat about this subject. Here's a question: Am I the only one that seems to have trouble practicing restraint when i see some idiot thug who needs a beating? I am far from being a zen master for sure. Have the rest of you been able to do away with all your anger and frustration?

Hello North, Of all the things you said in your last post, there was one thing that really stuck. You posted, “I guess I am growing weary of the violence in my style of training yet I don't want to lose the skill and method that it keeps me conditioned for.” I train a two edged form of kung fu. On the one hand, I train for violent self defense. On the other I train for health and artistic expression. I still have a hard time with the latter but it is coming. Mostly it is a matter of balance, for me. I heard of a specialty motorcycle builder who had a similar dilemma. He said something to this effect. For the first half of his adult life one of two things was happening. Either he was trying to kick the world’s ass or it was trying to kick his. Now, he just want to practice his art and be left in peace. That is very similar to how I feel. You asked, "Here's a question: Am I the only one that seems to have trouble practicing restraint when i see some idiot thug who needs a beating? I am far from being a zen master for sure. Have the rest of you been able to do away with all your anger and frustration? In a single word, "No". I have found that it is supposed to be an uncomfortable experience. And anger and frustration are dark passions that I need to control. But the key word there is "control" not do-away-with. Control can mean to direct into a more positive approach. I have finally learned that it is not my place to police the world. It is my job to police myself. I hope this helps Regards, MrE2Me2

If you were a driving instructor would you feel responsible if one of your students 5 years later got charged with DUI or reckless driving? I think if you teach responsible and maintain ethics to the effect of not teaching people to be the be aggessor to get what ever they want by using martial arts, I think you are only creating good karma. It is the ones who abuse your teachings should worry about negative karma. Martial Arts is exactly that an art, it maybe great to show and use the techniques but you must emphasize that it is an art form, if you just want to hurt people you could use a bat, a car, or firearm.

Good points, everyone, lots of insight. I like Pak Sau's analogy. North: Am I the only one that seems to have trouble practicing restraint when i see some idiot thug who needs a beating? LOL, I believe some idiot thugs do deserve and could use a good beating (for educational purposes only, of course, especially if they are on University grounds). :lol: Sometimes the best way to communicate with someone is to use their own language, especially if they are not very fluent in yours, and there are times when that language has to be the language of force. There was a line in our KFC oath, "...for if the good men show no courage, the evil make their way". It is very true. A more famous quote would be the following poem, referring to Nazi rise to power. There are a few variations, here is one from the New England Holocaust Memorial in Boston, Massachusetts: "They came first for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up." It is not always wise, and not always safe, but sometimes it is right to speak up. Was it foolish to get into an easily avoidable three-on-one situation with those bullies? Probably. Did the seriousness of the situation justify the danger of getting involved? May be not. Was it a "right" thing to do? That's a very good question. From the moral stand point it looks like it is, but how would your family feel if you got yourself killed? Would that be justified? Does the answer change if the victims in the situation were in more trouble? If it was just one guy and he was being badly beat up? What if it was a woman? A senior? Or a child? What if it was a rape in progress? What if the victim was someone you knew? Someone you loved? I believe that at some point the reason for getting involved in an avoidable confrontation does justify the risk. Whether it does or not, is something we all have to decide if and when we are faced with the situation. How we go about getting involved can also have an effect on the risk that we take. Sometimes the "attitude vibe" that you do not approve of what's going on and it's wise not to mess with you can be transmitted verbally and through body language from a "safer" distance. Sometimes unwanted public attention alone may be enough of a reason for thugs to back down, but then again, it may not be. I think police usually recommend to summon help and stay out of trouble, but it may not be appropriate or even possible in every case. It comes back to the same "knowledge is power", and with any power comes the responsibility to use it wisely. And that means not only knowing when not to use it, but also knowing when it is right, and actually using it to the proper extent. I've never been in a situation where I had to decide whether to use force or not, so I speak from a theoretical/idealistic base. One can not always predict how one would react in an actual situation when one is actually faced with it in the moment. Hindsight is 20/20, but in the moment there is not even usually the time to reason things through, and one has to rely on intuition and instinct to do the right thing. A good question to ask is: "Is the reason I want to fight worth the risk of me getting hurt, maimed, or killed? Hurting, maiming, or killing someone? Spending years in jail?" It's a sobering thought. However there are certainly situations when having to defend yourself or someone in one way or the other becomes unavoidable and is a right thing to do. People have different personalities. I've always been more or less balanced and not quick to anger, and if I do get angry it dissipates quickly. So though I do get frustrated or angry once in a while (who doesn't) I have not had to work hard to control my wild side. If anything, I had to work more to let my strong side come out. I agree with you that it is essential to train and be able to turn on (and then off) the intensity and ferocity when you need to defend yourself, but I think it is also important and possible not to let either anger or fear take over, because that clouds awareness and judgement. It is possible to be intense without feeling angry. A kind of a "water to ice" theory for the spirit. And some have lots of confidence but not so much skill. That can certainly lead to a bad situation, but sometimes ferocity and confidence will compensate for the lack of skill. That was one of the favorite arguments of TKF detractors, that a so-so boxer or street fighter would beat up a more knowledgeable TKF student simply because of their aggressiveness, since the on average meeker TKF students were poorly prepared to deal with the violence of a real confrontation. Regardless of how skilled they really are, anyone confident in their ability can be dangerous if they set their mind to hurt you and do not relent. And likewise, a lack of confidence and intensity will render useless superior skill and knowledge, since your tools are only as good as your ability and willingness to use them. I think the fact that you are pondering all of these questions, that you are aware of and are concerned by all the implications of who you are and what you do speaks of your responsibility and positive intent. It also means that you are consciously making/evolving a choice about who you are, and I believe there is no choice more important than that. I love the quote in your signature: "Happiness is a choice." It is so true, and yet most people would think that that statement is ludicrous and is esoteric nonsense. Happiness is a choice. And so is just about everything else. Peace. Courage. Kindness. Balance. Integrity. Strength. Who we are, what we make of ourselves is a choice. We start out in a certain direction, born with a certain personality, in a certain set of circumstances. And then whether we know it or not, we take the helm, and define who we are by every conscious and unconscious choice we make. We do not always have direct control of what life sends our way, but we do have control over our attitude. We do have an option to choose the way we react to what happens, and as we do, we define who we choose to be. Sounds simple, but in the moment, it's way too easy to forget, and takes awareness and effort to apply. When applied though, I find that it does work, and becomes easier the more one does it.

To all, 92 posted, “It is not always wise, and not always safe, but sometimes it is right to speak up.” Having thought about it for some days, I’d have to agree with that. 92 also posted, “It comes back to the same "knowledge is power", and with any power comes the responsibility to use it wisely.” Yes, it does. Further, it is impossible to put the genie back in the lamp, as it were. The fighting and mayhem knowledge and power are already out there. To hold back people who have come to me for this is not helping, me, them or others. 92 posted, “A good question to ask is: "Is the reason I want to fight worth the risk of me getting hurt, maimed, or killed? Hurting, maiming, or killing someone? Spending years in jail?" It's a sobering thought. However there are certainly situations when having to defend yourself or someone in one way or the other becomes unavoidable and is a right thing to do.” Again, a really good thought here. Taking responsibility can sometimes be challenging and difficult. 92 posted, “I agree with you that it is essential to train and be able to turn on (and then off) the intensity and ferocity when you need to defend yourself, but I think it is also important and possible not to let either anger or fear take over, because that clouds awareness and judgement. It is possible to be intense without feeling angry. A kind of a "water to ice" theory for the spirit.” I read somewhere about two different types of combative mindsets. There is the red rage or berserker mindset. It can inhibit finer motor control and higher thought processes. There is the so called icy rage mindset. It is can be typified by the expression, “I don’t get angry, I get even”. I rather like 92’s statement, “It is possible to be intense without feeling angry.” I think it is a better way to express the latter. North posted, “Am I the only one that seems to have trouble practicing restraint when i see some idiot thug who needs a beating?” Since I answered this earlier, I had my hair cut. My hair is easy to cut (3 and the top and a 2 on the side). I usually get it done and I’m out within 10 minutes. This time though, the woman who cut it was most unpleasant. It would have been easy and I would have been justified in giving her piece of my mind. But I held my tongue and walked away while vowing never to return. Something my wife asked about this stuck (later). “Why give her time and energy you would rather devote to something you like?” In essence, it's a matter of priorities. Regards, MrE2Me2

Very nice answers. Thank you all. Mre2me2 wrote: "Further, it is impossible to put the genie back in the lamp" I am thinking that applies also in other ways than you mentioned. The anger at people who are thugs is a constant with me, but I will admit I have a temper problem in general as well. In the haircut scenario I would have likely done the same thing you did, but I probibly would have made some comments or muttered something not quite under my breath, not because it changes the situation, but because it acts as a pressure release for some of the anger inside of me. I am not a boiling pot of anger, don't get me wrong, but I just purchased a new business I am trying to run and improve. I just had to fire half of the staff. I was polite about it at the time but when I am at home talking to my wife my true feelings are vocalized and I didn't have pretty things to say about these individuals. When my wife and I fight it gets ugly. We swear, insult one another and generally fall to a level of inmaturity that would be quite shameful if anyone else witnessed it. So I guess when I said I was quite far from being a Zen master I wasn't just refering to the situation of someone who completely deserves a dose of anger. Sometimes I am angry and it's nobody else's fault but my own. Anger is a human emotion that exists for a reason, however it does seem to be something that we should always have complete control over. Kung Fu is about self discipline as much as anything else. Having the self discipline to keep up with your training seems to be completely unrelated to controlling ones temper. Part of me got to thinking that because we are so focused on training how to hurt people perhaps it made us (me anyhow) more aggressive in general and that aggressiveness could manifest in forms like irritation, frustration and anger. Or perhaps the confidence that comes with the training makes us less inclined to care about how we are perceived by others? I know this sounds like I am blaming the training for my anger, but what I am looking for is a comparison. Do any of you get angry like normal people? Maybe a little more than normal like myself? Is it even related to the training at all? Should the training give me better control over my anger? I can run through a meditative bagua form (Or do meditation) and yes it calms me down if I am in a foul mood. But even if I spend 3 hours straight doing Kung Fu I can lose my cool at the drop of a hat when I see something that pisses me off. I've never snapped at a student. Ever. But I feel like I should have better control of my anger. I remember the words Master Piercey once spoke to me about how a master is not just a master of Kung Fu, but a master of himself. If there is an emotional trait I don't have full control of then I am not a master of myself. So the genie in this case is the knowledge we aquire through training. We cannot unlearn it, so it is permanantly part of who we are and what we are capable of. Indeed great responsabiliy comes with that power, but what happens when emotion clouds judgement? Obviously this is something I need to give alot of attention to and resolve. Part of that resolution is posting here and trying to better understand it. So I guess in a cut and dry way of asking, does anyone else out there who trains have a bad temper?

Hello North, You posted, “So I guess in a cut and dry way of asking, does anyone else out there who trains have a bad temper?” Yes but it was only almost everyone I’ve ever trained with! That is teachers, fellow students and my students too. Maybe it was just the intensity of practicing life or death combat situations that did it? Or perhaps they were even tempered when I wasn’t around? I do not know nor is it my place to judge their thoughts, only their actions within a training framework. I do know that training with a temper is a challenge that is common. When my first wife left me, she displayed a vile temper tantrum. When the police showed up they were six deep and ready to fight. I, on the other hand, make it a point never to fight with police. So when they arrived I showed them my hands and they assumed the crossfire position. We all talked softly and she left instead of me being arrested. (This isn’t a rant, it’s just so you know you’re not alone in this.) When I train, it is with the assumption that L.E.O.’s will be involved at some point. Therefore, a concise explanation of what I did would be very important. My self defense practice is geared toward deterring the attacker. Through this forum I have realized that I can be artistic within this framework. And this has enhanced my practice and improved my abilities. But even so, there are times when I get very pissed off! I have simply learned that when the temper goes forth, the mouth stays shut and the hands down! It ain’t easy but then I don’t practice easy either. Hope this helps a bit. Regards, MrE2Me2 Without prejudice E&OE

It does. :) thank you. I am sure there are alot of variables that are connected to it all. How we perceive ourselves and how we are perceived by others. My wife is intimidated by the amount of confidence I have. She doesn't have much of her own. I know she gets resentful and given enough time it leads to conflict. But I cannot change her, I can only change myself, and I would like to have more restraint of my tongue at times without bottling up negative emotions. "I have simply learned that when the temper goes forth, the mouth stays shut and the hands down!" -E2 I will try and keep that in mind, but I picture myself in that scenario feeling like I am bottling up my anger. Maybe counting to 10? hehe Anyhow I was hoping to reach a state where I can recognize the anger as it builds and cool it with my will and rational thinking. I have been able to do this before, but at that time my wife and I decided to take a vacation from one another. I would suppose it was just that the two of us don't mix well however I have had this same problem with my older brother. I cannot even count how many times we have resorted to full on fighting to resolve our frustration with one another. In his case it tends to be 1 warning to shut his trap followed by a vicious beating if he neglects to follow the first warning. This was the story of my childhood and for sure I know it has contributed to the temper issue. I have successfully solved many many problems using violence and I believe my subconcious-brain views it as a useful tool. Serene and peaceful violence doesn't seem to happen outside sparring so the anger becomes part of you. After all to resort to violence you either have to be attacked or really pissed off.

Hello North, You posted, “…I picture myself in that scenario feeling like I am bottling up my anger.” I once read an autobiography by C.W. Nicol called “Moving Zen”. It takes place in Japan about 1960 and it’s the history of this guy attaining a black belt. Now he had been a pro wrestler, street fighter and all round bad man. He too, was afflicted with a bad temper. His descriptions are similar to yours and to my own for that matter. You posted, “Anyhow I was hoping to reach a state where I can recognize the anger as it builds and cool it with my will and rational thinking.” I have used this (and so did the author) with mixed results. Another tactic I use is to not speak or act but merely feel. To stop reacting is very hard for me and takes a lot to do. The way my father deals with conflict is in line with this idea too. “Push me and I’ll step back the first time but if there’s a second time, look out!” Means I may take your first shot but I’ll see it coming and I’ll use it to justify my actions. Also means I’ll feel emotional sensations like anger as a reaction instead of speaking or acting. But this presupposes that your actions are not a threat (I make an initial threat assessment). In certain situations this line of conduct is absurdly dangerous. So it has to be practiced with someone whom I can feel vulnerable in front of. For example I read another guys siggy and it goes something like this: “Most people are more violently opposed to fur than leather because it is much easier to harrass rich women than bikers.” :-D You posted, “I have successfully solved many many problems using violence and I believe my subconcious-brain views it as a useful tool.” Sometimes it is and sometimes I have to be very aggressive even when I am not angry. Sometimes violence is necessary even when I‘m not in the mood to be violent. But as the man put it; “Moods are a thing for cattle and love play!” And then there is just the willingness to be violent without actually acting (like you have pointed out). Sometimes it will stop an aggressor in his tracks, that willingness. Regards, MrE2Me2 Without prejudice E&OE