Following Olaugh ...I mean Olaf Simon

THF_PHS Why do some people, like Current Student, follow Olaf Simon when he is a known liar (as he freely admits in court documents), has low moral character and is a man with no integrity? What do these people think of the self appointed titles that he has given himself like: 1. His Holiness 2. Current Dalai Seng Shi 3. 23rd successor of the Tookien Temple 4. 1 of 3 Silver Sash Holders 5. and the most laughable of titles that he has taken on "Grand Master" My friend I have read your postings on other parts of this site. when you are posting about "The Arts" or " fighting" I find your posts interesting, and in my opinion informative. If I dont agree with something you say it usually, at the very least, gives me a different perpective to look at things from. So the thing I am having a problem figuring out, is why someone with your knowledge and probably ability, would waste there time starting yet another column to slander someones name, again. I dont get it. It is almost like there are two different people signing in under the same name. Beleive me I know the Martial Arts community is full of problems. But I dont waste my time trying to slander anyone, wether they deserve it or not. Not that you care, but I am trying to like you. And when I see a competent Martial Artist going out of there way to start a thread like this, it makes me question there degree of competency. I know you do not like GM Simon. You dont have to start more threads, because it takes away from all the good stuff you do post on here. you hate GM Simon we all know it. I really hope that your whole existence does not revolve around this issue. I guess if you need to keep doing it go ahead, but I will quickly start to disregard you as a serious example of a martial artist. shawn

I wonder the same thing myself. The only reason I can see is TKF_PHS is trying to turn this into the old orange forums. That's not as easy to do when it's moderated and people can call you to task to prove outlandish accusations. I too try to give people the benifit of the doubt but what I see here is (as someone else aptly labeled) an agitator. It's like it's your job to do it.

Sifu Shawn, I understand what you are saying and I have come to respect your opinion. It is no secret that I do not think much of Olaf Simon. It's just that I do feel that I am given the run around on most of my questions. Could someone please tell me why Olaf Simon at least gives himself these 4 titles: 1. His Holiness 2. Current Dalai Seng Shi 3. 23rd successor of the Tookien Temple 4. 1 of 3 Silver Sash Holders There are always excuses for his actions but yet no one ever holds him accountable. 1. He's retired....I am sure he just sat back and received the money and did not provide direction to his Masters. Even when the cash flow was dwindling he just sat back and wondered why. Do people honestly believe that he just trains all day and does not wonder what is going on with the day to day operations of the Art that he created. Perhaps he watches reality television all day long with no interest in his schools. I doubt it. 2. His business practices...well known fact that Nanlao, the next Dalai Seng Shi, Master of Form and Style, June Simon gave business direction to the owners. Where did she get this direction from? If the businesses were all independantly run with no direction from anyone then how come they all had the same business model? I doubt that many independant business owners would come up with the same high pressured business style with the exact same scripts. As instructors shift from school to school and city to city it is obvious that there is direction from a higher organization or person than the "independantly" owned schools. 3. He is the Grand Master and ultimately will have to take responsibility for all that has gone wrong. It does not take a genius to know that the schools have gone awry. He has to be held accountable for the poor business practices. I don't believe that for decades he did not know that his schools were being run in this manner. Olaf is the leader and all that has gone wrong, has gone down during his watch. If it is because of those underneath him then it is because he did not provide clear direction. I thought that TKF screens it's members to see if they have high moral character. So then how come it is that all these Masters are the trouble makers and traitors? It seems that the one constant is His Holiness Olaf. It looks like it is Olaf and not the Masters who has been twisting things around. In the military the Commanding Officer (CO) takes responsibilty. When the kid in Somalia was tortured and killed it was ultimately the CO of the Regiment who stood up and said, "it was my fault". He did not know that the kid was being tortured but he was still responsible. A leader is responsible for those underneath him. The CO obviously did not convey his intent for the mission to all the soldiers. The CO did not convey what was acceptable or unacceptable behaviour so he had to accept responsibility. In a large civilian corporation who gets fired when things go wrong? The CEO!!! That's because he led them in the wrong direction or did not provide clear direction. When is Olaf going to accept responsibility?....never because it is only excuses. There has never been so much controversy around the founder of an art. Jigoro Kano, Mas Oyama, Morihei Ueshiba, Ed Parker, Bruce Lee...they have a led from the front. True leaders in their art. I don't exactly see a majority of the Masters in their respective arts turning against their Grand Master. Today's Grand Masters (i.e. Helio Gracie etc) have the respect of their best students. How come Olaf does not have this respect? Has he done something wrong? Has he been behind the scenes all along, pulling the strings? Is he not saying anything because he knows that it was him manipulating matters with his Masters? No matter what he says he cannot fix the rift because his best students know the real truth. So he remains silent while his creation splits into many directions...he is retired and sees no need to say anything. Do you honestly believe that? What Grand Master would remain silent at a time like this? What Grand Master would let their art fracture and split into so many factions that are vehemently against one another. Why does he not speak up? Olaf, your students need to hear your voice more so now than ever. They need your leadership. Where are you?

TKF_PHS has a good point! Why do none of Simon's past students come to his aid, why is Simon so silent? If Simon produces a Master of his style, he should then give his blessing for him to setout on his own and the new Master should be respectful and come to his former Masters aid if needed! Has this ever happened under Simon's watch?

"It's just that I do feel that I am given the run around on most of my questions." Whatever you ask gets answered. It's just that in most of your posts you're not asking questions but making sarcastic and offensive comments. And when people do reply to you, you usually answer with personal insults. "Could someone please tell me why Olaf Simon at least gives himself these 4 titles" He said so in the transcript. He was a white man, an immigrant, trying to make a name for himself and market his school in a world of almost exclusively Oriental martial artists. If he invented a few titles for himself, it's nothing more than what countless others have done. Really, every title whatsoever has been invented at some time or other by some person or group of people, so who's to say that one title is more legit than another? Since Simon was marketing a good product, no harm has been done. In any case, I've never heard anyone call Simon by any of his titles except Grand Master, which in my opinion he unquestionably deserves. Besides, who cares about his titles anyway? Do you care that his name is Olaf? What's the difference between a name and a title? What if he simply changed his name to "Dalai Seng Shi" or his parents called him that to begin with, would you mind less? Do you care that I call myself Vortexx on this forum, or that Samuel Clemens called himself Mark Twain? And don't even get me started on "The Artist Formerly Known As Prince"! People have called themselves way stranger things. "Do people honestly believe that he just trains all day and does not wonder what is going on with the day to day operations of the Art that he created." Why not? When I get to be his age I'd want to have absolutely nothing to do with business whatsoever. I'd want to live out the last few years of my life in peace and quiet, doing what I love most, and not worrying myself about anything else. I really find nothing surprising in him leaving the day to day operations entirely to the individual owners. Besides, from what I hear he was very rarely present at owners' meetings, and when he would visit a studio the students used to be told never to address him directly, so he would have little opportunity of finding out if things were going wrong. "If the businesses were all independantly run with no direction from anyone then how come they all had the same business model?" No they didn't. There were major differences between how Masters Weber, Sparrow, and Jones were running their studios. The fees were different, the class structure was different (e.g. Weber never had Sparrow's Charter program or Activity Passes), the advertising and promotion methods were different, etc., etc. Since both Weber and Sparrow apprenticed under Master Piercey, it's not surprising if they ran things in a similar way, at least at first. Then Sparrow started making major changes. Jones was running things in his own way all along. The current Alberta owners have a totally different business model from the one used by any of the previous owners. Mrs. Simon may have offered suggestions and given directions, but the owners still have the final say on whether (or how) to implement her advice or not, so they are the ones ultimately responsible for the success or failure of their business. "If it is because of those underneath him then it is because he did not provide clear direction." Yes, you do have a point there. It would indeed have been better if he had paid more attention to how his studios were run. But I believe he has as much right to retire as anybody else, and if he has chosen to separate himself from business, you can't blame him too much for doing so. "I thought that TKF screens it's members to see if they have high moral character." You know full well that no screening method is perfect. There are always people who get through whose true nature isn't apparent until much later when the right conditions present themselves. Besides, most of the problems were a result of accumulating poor management decisions and personality conflicts rather than malevolent motives. "So then how come it is that all these Masters are the trouble makers and traitors?" No one said they were. I never heard anything negative about Sparrow or Jones. We were all sad when they left, but nobody called them traitors or trouble makers. Weber totally neglected and ran his studios into the ground, and had his franchise license pulled, for very good reasons (in my opinion). I don't feel at all sorry for him. Master Piercey left very quietly, and I only found out many months later, and wasn't given a reason. There was a rumor that he took out all the money out of the studio accounts (which he owned) when he left, leaving them cash-strapped, but other than that I didn't really hear anything negative about him. As you see, each case was totally different. You're oversimplifying and looking for a common cause, when there isn't one. It's like blaming the Queen for all of Canada's problems, just because she's our highest leader and her Governor Generals' seal is the one common thing on everything implemented by the government. "He is the Grand Master and ultimately will have to take responsibility for all that has gone wrong." "A leader is responsible for those underneath him." Should the president of a country be punished for all the crime that was committed during his presidency? What you propose is impractical. There is always a bad apple in every basket. You won't solve this by hanging the gardener. "When is Olaf going to accept responsibility?" What, exactly, do you expect him to do? He has certainly shown regret for some of the decisions and mistakes he's made in the past. Do you want him to get down on his knees and beg for forgiveness? "There has never been so much controversy around the founder of an art." Actually, there are few systems without any controversy, and some have quite a bit of it. Look at all the controversy surrounding Ed Parker's system. According to Cam there's plenty of controversy surrounding tai chi. The bigger the system, the greater the controversy. Wherever there are people, there will be politics, power struggles, and personality conflicts. That seems to be human nature, unfortunately. "I don't exactly see a majority of the Masters in their respective arts turning against their Grand Master." They haven't really turned against him, they simply went their own way. Many still respect him and what he has accomplished, and none of them belittle his skill. Some of them may have had issues with his personality or with the way he had chosen to present and market the system. Some of them may have wanted more control over what they taught and how they operated, so they opened their own schools outside of the TKF framework without paying the franchise fees. Simon never sued anyone for that, but it can certainly explain the rift between them. He did put this system together, and I think he deserves to receive credit for that. "What Grand Master would remain silent at a time like this?" "Olaf, your students need to hear your voice more so now than ever." At a time like what? Plenty of masters have gone their own way in the past, and likely more will in the future. That is ultimately their choice to make. GMS can't expect everyone to remain with TKF for a lifetime. The current group of masters and PHS members is stronger and more unified than ever in the past. TKF has indeed lost quite a few studios recently, but there are amateur clubs set up in most of those cities, and in time I'm sure they'll turn into full time studios again. For those training in Alberta this is perhaps the best time in decades.

"He is the Grand Master and ultimately will have to take responsibility for all that has gone wrong. A leader is responsible for those underneath him." Should the president of a country be punished for all the crime that was committed during his presidency? What you propose is impractical. There is always a bad apple in every basket. You won't solve this by hanging the gardener. When a Minister steps out of line it is the Prime Minister who bears the criticism because it is his representative and the Minister is supposed to speak on the Prime Minister's behalf. That is why he chooses responsible men. The same goes with the President of the United States. When a member of his cabinet steps out of line he bears the responsibility. I thought the Masters act and speak on behalf of the Grand Master like in every other style. So didn't every single Master condone high pressured sales. Did they all not condone high school and University students to go into great debt to pay for martial arts....so much so that maxing out credit cards was deemed acceptable. Is it illegal? No. Is it responsible to your students who are malleable and look up to their Masters? You tell me. Besides, who cares about his titles anyway? Do you care that his name is Olaf? What's the difference between a name and a title? What if he simply changed his name to "Dalai Seng Shi" or his parents called him that to begin with, would you mind less? Do you care that I call myself Vortexx on this forum, or that Samuel Clemens called himself Mark Twain? And don't even get me started on "The Artist Formerly Known As Prince"! People have called themselves way stranger things. The point is that taking on a pseudonym or changing a name still does not misrepresent someone, nothing has changed. None of your above examples lead someone to believe that these persons are greater than what they really are. Olaf's misleading titles clearly want to paint a picture of someone that is greater than what they are. It boils down to integrity. "If the businesses were all independantly run with no direction from anyone then how come they all had the same business model?" No they didn't. There were major differences between how Masters Weber, Sparrow, and Jones were running their studios. There were differences between the Studios but the same underlying theme was prevalent throughout. High pressured sales and the same scripts. Everyone got asked the "one time offer". Everyone got promoted and invited to Kung Fu Club etc. The current group of masters and PHS members is stronger and more unified than ever in the past. What's left of them. I think about 1/10th of the student population is still around compared to last year. I am not looking for an apology from His Holiness Olaf or for him to actually speak and provide leadership. I just want to provoke some thought that perhaps the great Dalai Seng Shi, Silver Sash Holder and 23rd Successor of the Tookien Temple Olaf Simon is not as detached from his business as much as he makes out to be.

TKF_PHS In the military the Commanding Officer (CO) takes responsibilty. When the kid in Somalia was tortured and killed it was ultimately the CO of the Regiment who stood up and said, "it was my fault". He did not know that the kid was being tortured but he was still responsible. A leader is responsible for those underneath him. The CO obviously did not convey his intent for the mission to all the soldiers. The CO did not convey what was acceptable or unacceptable behaviour so he had to accept responsibility. In a large civilian corporation who gets fired when things go wrong? The CEO!!! That's because he led them in the wrong direction or did not provide clear direction. When is Olaf going to accept responsibility?....never because it is only excuses I am sorry but I do not see how the death of an innocent child can be in anyway a source to for you to draw draw from in order to validate your position against GM Simon. Thats pretty warped. I wish you would at least compare apples to apples. Compare Simon with other clubs or organizations that are involved in the Martial Arts community, dont compare a dead child with unhappy students. You are so wrapped up with this whole anti Simon campaign that your entire argument is getting more and more twisted everytime you speak. Temple kung fu, Simons kung fu, Simons Karate, moo kempo, moh kempo, whatever you want to call it is an art. compare it with other such things. Simon was a business man, things went bad. You know what it happens all the time. Maybe the world should only accept perfect people. If you fell for his marketing scheme, and you are upset that you fell for it to bad. Ya cant be mad at Simon for experimenting in marketing techniques. As for his rankings and titles. I just want you to know that you are right. He faked his. The day god handed out the 10 commandments, he also handed out 6 legitimate Martial arts lineages and titles( I am serious, they forgot to print that part of the bible, but its totally true). So really there is only 6 true lineages. All the rest were man made and GM Simon is guilty. Yes sir. Now what I want you to do for homework for me, TKF_PHS, is with your vast knowledge and connections in everything from the military, to real estate, to your literary dgrees, and whatever government, and or academic connections you may have is this: find and list for me the 6 Masters and their lineages that were handed out by god himself( because I know you will beleive those ones are legitimate) because i want to put a stop to all the other phoneys out there. And I mean boxing commisions and there titles , I mean Muay thai promotors and all there "fake" titles, and the WKA and all its fake titles. Its anarchy, absolute pandemonium. You are so right, there is a black belt, kick boxing title holding fraud on just about every corner. Its out of control. We need to put a stop to it. once you've got the 6 legitiamte ones listed we are laughing. We can run down every body. It will be great. Im in your corner. shawn

Sifu Shawn, "I am sorry but I do not see how the death of an innocent child can be in anyway a source to for you to draw draw from in order to validate your position against GM Simon. Thats pretty warped. I wish you would at least compare apples to apples. Compare Simon with other clubs or organizations that are involved in the Martial Arts community, dont compare a dead child with unhappy students." What you don't understand is that anecdote has nothing to do with Simon. In no way was I comparing it to TKF, Simon, his art etc. I am talking about accountability and responsibility. If one of the officer's under a CO's command goes out on a drunken night out on the town with the troops and gets into a drunken brawl with a bunch of civilians then it is the CO that bears responsibility. If a police recruit uses excessive force when aiding in an arrest then it is the senior officer's responsibility. When the American Wing Man dropped a bomb on Canadian Troops in Afghanistan, killing 4 allied soldiers, it was the Flight Lead pilot who stood side by side with his wingman on 4 charges of negligent manslaughter. Did the Flight Leader give permission to drop the bomb? No. But, the actions of his wingman are a direct reflection of the Flight Leader's Command. Sifu Shawn what you do not understand is that whether it's a drunken brawl or negligent manslaughter the level of accountability and responsibility remains the same. The anecdote of the child in Somalia can be replaced with any lesser crime/story but the fact remains that responsibility or accountability does not change according to the severity of the injustice. None of these examples are trying to parallel Simon, TKF or his art. But, what they do demonstrate is what level of responsibility and accountability a leader has. Many who enter management are ready and willing to accept the benefits of their positions, but not all are readily accepting of the full responsibilities of leadership. All too frequently, modern leadership appears self-serving, with the needs and desires of the leaders taking precedence over the needs of the followers and even the needs of the clients or customers. True leadership, however, should primarily benefit the followers rather than the leader. Leaders lead and followers follow for essentially the same reason, fulfillment of needs, so leaders and followers are fundamentally little different from each other. Every manager at every level has organizational superiors, so every leader is a follower as well. A true leader among managers is one who subordinates personal needs to the organization's needs, places employees well above self in importance and models appropriate behavior for employees. Sifu Shawn, what I am simply pointing out is that everyone makes excuses for His Holiness Olaf but no one holds him responsible or accountable. People say he retired 10-20 years ago but why did he not choose a successor so that TKF can be led with one voice. A protege properly taught would carry out His Holiness' wishes as was taught to him. There has rarely been a Grand Master who retired and not name a successor. Why would someone create an art and retire and leave the art leaderless? The reason why Olaf did not choose a successor is that it would take all the power away from him. That would not be good since he is the person really pulling all the strings. I am not looking for any apologies from the 23rd successor of the Tookien Temple, Olaf Simon, but what I am trying to point out is that Simon is not as innocent as he would want us to believe. If the current Dalai Seng Shi Olaf Simon personally taught all his Master's and his Master's produced abhorrent business practices, treated junior instructor's extremely poorly etc then why shouldn't His Holiness Olaf bear some responsibility or accountability? In the absence of a successor Olaf's Masters are his voice.

TKF_PHS Sifu Shawn, what I am simply pointing out is that everyone makes excuses for His Holiness Olaf but no one holds him responsible or accountable I would like to first point out that I am not making excuses for GM Simon. I am sure he has bad points and I am sure he has good points. My teacher spent some time training directly under GM Simon ( mostly under Master Higgs however). I am a second generation Moo kempo student and never trained directly under GM Simon or had anything to do with his business practices( which even back in the day were not the best business model, I give you that 100 percent) But I have a couple of serious questions for you and I would like you to answer them best you can. 1. Who would you like to see hold GM Simon accountable? Or who do you realistically think should hold him accountable. ( If GM does not wish to take responsiblity himself, there is nothing we can do about that) 2. Suppose you, personally, were granted the power to hold him accountable ( there is no doubt he is responsible. But responsibilty and accountablity are not the same thing) ( to put things in terms I think you will understand :we know Osama Bin laden is responsible, but he has yet to be held accountable) What would you hold GM Simon accountable for and what should be his punishments?? what do you want to see done to him. And because I have asked you this question i will not run you down for your answer, although I may respectfully have a rebuttle. I do, however, not wish for us to slam each other like kindergarten students. I know you have a real vendetta against GM Simon. And I know I will not change your opinion of him. But you are asking the same questions of people who really maybe do not have the answers. I mean you do have some very good arguments against GM. and since you are in law enforcement, I would like to hear what you legally think can or should be done and by whom. A lot of the disagreements on this forum are disagreements based on opinions. so instead of me arguing my opinion, I want to know what you think should be done, And i will sleep on it and then reply, instead of giving an instant retaliation response. shawn

TKF_PHS The anecdote of the child in Somalia can be replaced with any lesser crime/story but the fact remains that responsibility or accountability does not change according to the severity of the injustice. I agree with you in the sense that holding someone accountable does not change depending on the severity of injustice. But ususally if someone is being held accountable for something there should be a punishment to go along with it. The degree of punishment should definitley be proportionate to the severity of injustice. which again brings me to my question 1. Who would you like to see hold GM Simon accountable? Or who do you realistically think should hold him accountable. ( If GM does not wish to take responsiblity himself, there is nothing we can do about that) 2. Suppose you, personally, were granted the power to hold him accountable ( there is no doubt he is responsible. But responsibilty and accountablity are not the same thing) ( to put things in terms I think you will understand :we know Osama Bin laden is responsible, but he has yet to be held accountable) What would you hold GM Simon accountable for and what should be his punishments?? what do you want to see done to him. And because I have asked you this question i will not run you down for your answer, although I may respectfully have a rebuttle Shawn

I don't know what the truth is about GMS and his history, the fact is he has a great art wherever it came from, It might not be 100% complete, but what he teaches does have value. The biggest parts that seem to be missing are the holes in the meditation and developing internal energy. Mabye some more intricate weapons training would be good too. I don't find fault with the art itself. But, I also taught for a number of years and ran a studio etc.. And the claim that they ( head office, GMS, Mrs. Simon)didn't know what was going on, I think is just plain untrue. We were given scripts of what to say for everything, from the orange belt program, KFC etc. We were taught to ask if people had the options of credit cards , loans etc. This is the same business model used at all the schools. We had print out 's directly from the head office , this wasn't stuff each Master came up with themselves. Yes there were some differences in the training, but the business system was the same. On top of that I remember that I had to fax to the head office how much money we were taking in, each day and at the end of the week. If they were not invovled at all why were we sending them this information? I also remember getting faxes from the head office on different directives etc. They were involved no matter what they have said. And all of the times the masters have had a falling out it has been over $ disputes with the head office or business practices. It's too bad really because despite all this I really enjoyed my training and will miss it now that it has fractured apart. I don't hold a vendetta against GMS. He and Mrs. Simon made some decisions that were bad ones but who hasn't. If there has been one thing in life that has rang true it's the statement" You can't change others, you can only change yourself to be ok with who they are, and how you perceive them." Would I like to know the truth? Sure!! Will we probably ever find out the whole truth of what really happened? Who was trained by who? Who betrayed who etc... Probably not. Is it worth obsessing about.... Probably not. Tell people your story, let them decide for themselves about TKF. Move on, find peace. Pai Mei

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