Following Olaugh ...I mean Olaf Simon

"Sorry, what it takes was someone with a little moral fortitude. Seems like there wasn't too much of that kicking around in management." I think most of the past management were generally good people. Many of them probably thought that some of the practices (such as pushy sales tactics) were a common and therefore acceptable mode of operation. Others realized that they weren't, but didn't have the fortitude or the authority to change it. On the other hand, there were also enough high-up people that were the source of many of those problems, and who had lower than average ethical standards.

"On the other hand, there were also enough high-up people that were the source of many of those problems, and who had lower than average ethical standards." - Vortexx Pretty well sums up TKF Management!

"Pretty well sums up TKF Management!" PAST tkf management. SOME past tkf management.

Most TKF management!

To all, You know, everyone here seems to post as though Olaf had all this power. Why are there few questions about the former president of SKS every posted? Also, hindsight is always 20/20. Yet, No One who was with SKS or TKF has stayed. Moreover, this forum is the first moderated forum dedicated to Mo. Again, why such a long wait? Could it be that all of us felt quite betrayed? And at the same time, we are too macho to admit it? I mean, think about it!!! Most people on this forum are former instructors or high ranking belt holders. A lot of us have gone on to have very interesting experiences in the martial arts. Yet here we are, taking cheap shots and asking hard questions. We are doing this about activities that took place years ago. No one who tried to do it was able to succeed (when the time was ripe). No One! I find it hard to believe that it is just a matter of “moral fortitude”. Regards, MrE2Me2 Without prejudice E&OE

I find it hard to believe that it is just a matter of “moral fortitude”. No I think the case for the most of us was not having the authority to affect change.

Hello Current Student, In my opinion, I agree, not having the power to make changes has ended in people leaving. Also, not knowing how to make those changes has also resulted in discord. But I don’t believe that TKF/SKS is alone in this. After some research, I have come to realize that most systems of MA are similar here. Those talented people who stay are eventually regarded as a threat. And so are new concepts in business. The “old guard” simple forces them out. And while sometimes this is a good thing, sometimes it is not. “Being Willing” to change must be coupled with “Being Able and Being Ready”. Otherwise the change either doesn’t happen or it results in setbacks. In any case, a little “moral fortitude” simply isn’t enough. Regards, MrE2Me2

RE
Sifu Shawn post earlier: "Temple kung fu, Simons kung fu, Simons Karate, moo kempo, moh kempo, whatever you want to call it is an art. compare it with other such things. Simon was a business man, things went bad. You know what it happens all the time. Maybe the world should only accept perfect people. If you fell for his marketing scheme, and you are upset that you fell for it to bad. Ya cant be mad at Simon for experimenting in marketing techniques........" Don't minimize the betrayal here sifu shawn. Those "experiments" were fabrications that just kept morphing. New students paid hard earned $ and put their faith in this rhetoric, training under false pretenses for years. If Simon had been honest about his history I firmly believe none of this would have happened. But he didn't and Simon is at the root of this mess. The instructors didn't make up Fu Yen, the Shaolin priest thing, 23rd guardian, etc, etc. He did and it's a crock, plain and simple. He's a con man who eventually believed his own propoganda.

Hello DaveS How are you? I see by your post that you’re still sensitized to what happened at Temple (by any name). Hey, so am I (or I wouldn’t be here). I asked that Sifu Shawn become a moderator here precisely because he is not sensitized. Please keep in mind that Sifu Shawn has not been through this particular meat grinder. He learned from Sifu Ed Bruneau who had left SKS in 1976. Moreover, Sifu Shawn also learned from Master Trevor Higgs. FYI, in my opinion: Master Higgs is not only an accredited Kung Fu Master. He has been the most active offline guy to try and reconnect the students of Mo. He has tried with me, Wayne, Phillip and Ed. And those are just the guys I know about. So you might say that Sifu Shawn is following the tradition of his teachers, teacher. Now I am not minimizing what happened here. I am trying to step back from it. That way it won’t have such a hold over me. As for Olaf and his “Tales”: He is not the only one to make the claim that he is the 23 successor. http://templekungforum.14.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=36 (An entire thread devoted to this.) Now if I might ask you a question or two: Why do you post about Olaf, when he was just the former secretary? How come you say nothing about the former President of SKS? (The power behind the throne, as it were.) Regards, MrE2Me2 Without prejudice E&OE

Dave S Don't minimize the betrayal here sifu shawn. Those "experiments" were fabrications that just kept morphing. New students paid hard earned $ and put their faith in this rhetoric, training under false pretenses for years. If Simon had been honest about his history I firmly believe none of this would have happened. But he didn't and Simon is at the root of this mess. The instructors didn't make up Fu Yen, the Shaolin priest thing, 23rd guardian, etc, etc. He did and it's a crock, plain and simple. I am sorry if this has hit a nerve with you. My instructor learned Moo kempo back in the early 1970's. And just to clarify, i have trained a few times with Master Higgs only, i do not consider my self a direct student, but i do consider myself lucky to have trained with him all the same. But i have had a chance to talk with Master Higgs, he is a very straight foreward and friendly guy. He was with GM Simon back in the 1960's yet. Both my instructor and Master Higgs vouch for GM Simons abilities. That is where I stand. Both of these men see past the betrayal and appreciate both the art and GM Simons abilities......... A good art came from GM Simon. What are you really mad about DaveS???? And dont mean any of what I am saying to sound sarcastic. Do you feel you paid to much for your lessons?? Hey Moo kempo may save your life, or one of your kids life oneday. What kind of a price can you put on that. If Simon had been honest about his history I firmly believe none of this would have happened. Cmon' man is this what its all about. You are upset because you were fed inaccurate history. I am not trying to minimize a betrayal. But I also dont feel sorry for anyone who cant get past it. I mean really, most martial arts evolved from the shaolin temples , I think. Funakoshi even wrote that shotokan came from china originally. So there is some truth to the history of Moo coming from there. I see so many people wrapped up in hating the bad business model, that they are failing to look at the art. sifu shawn

"We were given scripts of what to say for everything, from the orange belt program, KFC etc. We were taught to ask if people had the options of credit cards , loans etc. This is the same business model used at all the schools." It's certainly not used in the current Edmonton and Calgary studios, I can tell you that for sure. BTW, you may find the following an enjoyable read: COMPANY POLICY "Start with a cage containing five monkeys. Inside the cage, hang a banana on a string and place a set of stairs under it. Before long, a monkey will go to the stairs and start to climb towards the banana. As soon as he touches the stairs, spray all of the other monkeys with cold water. After a while, another monkey makes an attempt with the same result: all the other monkeys are sprayed with cold water. Pretty soon, when another monkey tries to climb the stairs, the other monkeys will try to prevent it. Now, put away the cold water. Remove one monkey from the cage and replace it with a new one. The new monkey sees the banana and wants to climb the stairs. To his surprise and horror, all of the other monkeys attack him. After another attempt and attack, he knows that if he tries to climb the stairs, he will be assaulted. Next, remove another of the original five monkeys and replace it with a new one. The newcomer goes to the stairs and is attacked. The previous newcomer takes part in the punishment with enthusiasm! Likewise, replace a third original monkey with a new one, then a fourth, then the fifth. Every time the newest monkey takes to the stairs, he is attacked. Most of the monkeys that are beating him have no idea why they were not permitted to climb the stairs or why they are participating in the beating of the newest monkey. After replacing all the original monkeys, none of the remaining monkeys have ever been sprayed with cold water. Nevertheless, no monkey ever again approaches the stairs to try for the banana. Why not? Because as far as they know, that's the way it's always been done around here. And that, my friend, is how a company policy begins." The moral of the story? The business practices may have been set up by some previous owners or Simon himself, and then perpetuated for decades by other owners, supervisors, and instructors simply because of this "company policy" idea, or business momentum, how I would call it. A studio would use certain scripts or whatever because "as far as they know, that's the way it's always been done". It takes a good businessman and entrepreneur, and somebody with "guts" to break out of this cycle. The current owners have finally done that. That's a great analogy. Really puts the point in perspective. Mind if i use that at work?

"That's a great analogy. Really puts the point in perspective. Mind if i use that at work?" Go ahead, of course. (I didn't make it up, I found it somewhere on the Internet.)

I don't know if I agree with that analogy, maybe that 4 monkey's that got sprayed will think they got sprayed because they didn't try for the stairs. Maybe all the monkey's will try to get to the stairs, the only safe spot. As much as it amuses me to think of tkf instructors being monkey's, I know that is not the case. Nor do I think tkf was brought to it's knees because of unethical business practises! Tkf had survived for many years with the same business practises, I would say that tkf's business model changed about as much as Kempo 1 changed from the early 70's to the present, not much! So what changed? I'll tell you what changed, communication my friend, the hated/loved internet. People started talking and comparing notes, this couldn't of happened 20-30 years ago, the message just wouldn't have got out! So don't tell me that the current administration at tkf are a bunch of entrepenurial geniuses, they acted because thier hands were forced, they could see the walls of their beloved empire crumbling around their ear's and were forced to deal with some of the criticisms. Only time will tell if they will be successful Fear not though pro-tkf'ers, Moh will survive. You can thank MrE2Me2, Sifu Shawn and all the other x-tkf/sks students for that!

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