Contact Moh or less
Hello to all, I deliberated for awhile before posting this. When I trained in Moh, we started with no contact and gradually progressed to light contact. However, my teachers and fellow students were a tough bunch and the level of contact usually escalated quickly. I am not trying to debate the validity of contact as a training tool. Nor am I trying to post tough but on the other hand, I really want to know. How much contact did/does TKF students use? I’m looking for stories of contact, good or bad, from your days of training. Good Luck in your Training!

There was a fellow in the Vancouver studio around 1978-79 who was a veteran of the Vietnam conflict. He was very, very tough. His first time sparring and he walks into a spinning back kick and gets a broken rib. Not to be deterred, he retaliates with a front kick and breaks three toes.

MrE2Me2, I started tkf in 84-86 and there was no contact. I was even pulled into the office a couple times because the instructor told me I was being to aggressive.

In the last decade or so at higher levels of sparring there was some contact, nothing that warrented gloves or a head guard though. Compared to the early days it was probably nothing, however amongst brown belts, PHS and teachers there was definately a lot more body contact than in the regular sparring class. I had many bruises from sparring higher ranked teachers and I gave a few too. Master Piercey sparred me once and kicked me in the ribs hard enough that I nearly passed out several times. It taught me how to block better that's for sure. I rarely saw blood and never saw KO's though, which was apparently more common place in the 60's - 80's.

Hey DRShoalin, Thanks for your response. Grasshopper, you are right about knockouts, I was knocked senseless on my orange belt test in Edmonton during the time frame you mentioned. Although, what you posted reads like Moh has started to return to its roots.

My very first KFC was great! Mr. Demetrius was the Head Instructor at that time. We had a gruelling workout followed by sparring. I got hit a couple of times, fantastic!! , sadly all contact seemed to fade after that. The only other time I sparred and actually came close to some contact was when I first met DaveS. It's hard to remember the details of our match though I remember getting behind him, a perfect opportunity to give him a thrust punch to the kidneys, instead I choose to put him in a semi- nelson, well DaveS responded instantly to that, I was impressed! Most of all the other times I sparred it was like a game of hide and seek, always trying to run down opponents, man sometimes I would come in with the most obvious attack just to engage my partner and they would run away! I think it way be due to the fact that one day in class I clobbered this one student, he blocked my punch to his nose...right into his eye!! Gave him a good shiner! Not that I was happy to hurt him, actually I was disappointed that I didn't pull it! It was a clean hit though!

Hello cam, I'm glad that your first sparring match went so well. Although I'm not so glad that your subsequent efforts were not good. I remember one of my guys getting pumped for his yellow belt test. He went through it all well. He demonstrating power, speed, control and confidence. Finally, only sparring with me and my teacher remained. Well, I got up and he popped me one. I went down like a wet sock and when I tried to stand, I staggered. To make matters worse, nearly all my students were watching. I chuckle now but at the time I was quite embarrassed. But my teacher thought nothing of it. Clearly it was a lesson in me being ready because everyone can be dangerous if I wasn't paying attention.

In a little over a decade I've never seen any contact sparring. An occasional hit here or there but usually it was a mistake. The only time I've seen any of the Masters (Sparrow, Piercey and Webber) spar was against newbies or against junior instructors. Never seen them spar against anyone of great skill. Never even seen them spar each other. Now that I have trained in a few places for a few years I realize that the great "Masters" are only mediocre in the real world.

Hello TKF_PHS, You posted,” I've never seen any contact sparring.” I remember sparring with contact and watching it too. The light contact of my day always lead to heavier contact until someone was hurt and /or left. As I said on another thread, I have known men and women of the Moh style who fought and sparred with broken bones. They shed blood and they hurt people or were hurt themselves. In my opinion, one can be too hard, and we were. And just so we are clear here. The contact I am referring to does not refer to the use of gloves. It refers to striking with no (or minimal) padding. Quite frankly, I prefer training the way I do now. I train to hit but stopping short. I save my power for the bag and the pad. That way I and my students may train tomorrow, as well as today. MrE2Me2

"In a little over a decade I've never seen any contact sparring." Yes, and that was one major flaw in the old training methods. We now have quite a bit of contact, especially between senior students. I always leave each sparring class with at least a few bruises. We don't go full contact, because we don't use gear. But we make as much contact as we can without causing injury. "Never even seen spar each other." You never saw them spar anyone their own level, and so you concluded that they were mediocre? You don't know anything about them. I've seen masters and 3rd degree black belts completely demolish advanced students, and that was very impressive. But then I saw them spar each other, and they were doing it on a completely different level. The speed and power with which they fought totally blew everyone away. Unfortunately, most students, especially in the old studios, didn't get a chance to witness this very often. (In the past, advanced PHS black belts in Alberta were forbidden to spar full out or do unscripted demos in front of the students, so as not to show up the instructors. Now that they run the studios, they have done it on a number of occasions to illustrate concepts and inspire the students.) If you would have seen what I've seen, you would have no doubts whatsoever about their abilities.

I had a great time training at Temple but I always wondered why we sparred with those funny pads when we never touched each other?

Because Simon's company made them cheap, and they could be sold to students at a large mark-up -- especially when they're REQUIRED for training... Simon loves his cash you know. That's why you need 10 different rayon/velcro pyjama-sets (at $75.00 a piece) before you get to pay the big bucks for your fancy red ones... Trust me, it's all about the cash.

To all, Back in the late 70’s and early 80’s we used forearm and shin guards. We did so because we were protecting bruised limbs from further injury. Trust me; it was about serious training for the ring and the street, Regards, MrE2me2

I had a great time training at Temple but I always wondered why we sparred with those funny pads when we never touched each other? In my time I got a lot of use out of my pads, some days I really regretted forgetting them at home and had the buises to prove it. The arguement for why we had to buy (sell), the TKF ones specifically was that they covered the whole arm & leg while those other pads only covered the outside of the arm & leg not protecting the inner arm and leg which bruise a lot easeier. Those shin/ outer arm pads are more to protect the person you are striking rather than yourself.

Mine fell apart almost instantly. I had to sew the velcro strips at least once every couple of months. And yes, MrE - we trained hard too -- hard enough to realize that the foam they used in those pads was the cheapest possible stuff available, and we had to buy evazote camping pads and cut them up. Maybe they were better quality in your day. In our day they were so cheap as to almost be insulting. TVs came packed with better quality foam.