Ain't Nothin Passive About Blocking
To all, There has been some debate as to which is better. Whether one should block and then counter punch afterwards, Or whether one should simultaneously block and counter. I happen to believe that both have their place. I am starting this thread about blocking and countering to continue this debate, And also to stimulate a discussion about the tactic of blocking in general. I have been taught that blocking is many things. Among other things: It can be a defensive tactic that keeps me safe. It can be used as part of a passive draw, to tempt my opponent into an unwise move To start off, I’m showing some solo drills for block “and” counters. The rising block and three different counter follow ups. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFQ2xKK93EM The inside block and three different counter follow ups. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45G2n-oPKME The outside palm block and three different counter follow ups. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKkb2DFWdUA The mantis block and three different counter follow ups. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypI7ZKlbQAM The crossdown block and three different follow ups. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rp5f1oq7ewA The angled block with three different follow ups. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCuS_4DWV2w Regards, MrE2Me2

It depends on what a block is. Is it a strike that will re-direct an incoming strike, or is it more of a grabbing/trapping motion. Both methods can be used with a simultaneous counter movement.

Hello Cam, You posted, “It depends on what a block is.” I would define a block as a movement of the arm or leg used to defend against an attack. Rather than get too technical, I prefer to keep the definition relatively vague. Yet, I think that blocking has many categories within it. You asked (rhetorically),” Is it a strike that will re-direct an incoming strike,” Sometimes it is that, yet I’d say that even in striking blocks, there are many types. Hard strikes like Karate, parries, cutting blocks and even the so-called “High-punching block” would fall into this category (imo). You also asked (again rhetorically), “…or is it more of a grabbing/trapping motion” Again, I’d say yes but I’d also add catches to this list. I notice that the concept of checking was not listed, either. I don’t know if I’d categorize this as a “true” blocking concept. It works and it’s vital but it is not a block, per se. Last, you posted, “Both methods can be used with a simultaneous counter movement.” I believe that simultaneous block counter is vital to any Martial Art. But I do not believe that it is superior to any other method of using the “Passive Draw”. I believe that the “Indirect Attack” or “Passive Draw” should not be so predictable a tactic. Therefore, I sometime block, sometimes simultaneously block counter and sometimes block then counter. (That would be using only the tactic of blocking, of course.) Your comments? Regards, MrE2Me2 p.s, I also did not talk at all about positional blocking.

I agree, there are many sub-categories that blocking could fit into. It all comes down to intent, is it a hard direct block or a softer deflective type. Is it a defensive, neutral or offensive block? Are you stepping in or away from the attack, is your stepping at an angle or straight? An important consideration is, what are you blocking? Is it a blow from a 160lbs. drunk or from a 250lbs. power-lifter, are they trained in any substantial way or would they have a hard time punching through a soggy tissue paper? Probably somewhere inbetween! Though we should all be training for the 250lbs monster 8)

Hello Cam, I agree. Where I am when I block will often determine what type of block I use. Also, what I am blocking counts for a lot. I remember Wayne telling me once of his lesson with a pro ball player. He was sparring and suddenly this front kick comes at him. He moved to the side (#2 Temple Motion) and it sailed past his nose! Regards, MrE2Me2 To all, This time around I’m demonstrating some blocks “with” counters. It is a case of simultaneous block and counter. From an observer’s point of view, it may look like they are done as one. But from the defenders vantage point, it is practiced as a 1 ½ beat rhythm. Even though I do them as one move, they don’t land as one. Because the attacking limb is closer to me, I actually make contact with it just before I make contact with the counter. First we have the block with punch, done slow. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzVNMUGJsrA Then we have it done fast, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pi3FJHC0rmU Next we have the block with hammerfist, done slow. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgB2udmXuiQ Then, it too, is done fast. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jT4UK9hsmbg Last we have the block with swinging counter, done slow. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QN_vSwZBHRQ Then it is done fast. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EX1EhBH400 In order to use these, I find that I have to set them up with things like “False Openings”. Regards, MrE2Me2

Hello all, Just my thoughts on blocking, My school of thought generally categorizes blocking into one of three types 1) Shielding: This consists of the more "basic" yet effective blocks that we generally see in kickboxing. The arm or leg is used to shield the body from a blow. The limb usually takes the brunt of the force, which is fine if you are conditioned. They are generally the easiest blocks to teach beginners due to the fact that most untrained people, when attacked, will have a "flinch" reflex and brings there arms up to cover the head. Leg blocks are taught to deal with low strikes, leaving the hands up to either counter or to continue blocking the head. 2)Deflecting: These types of blocks are for the most part self explanatory. They are designed to redirect the force of the attack away from its intended target, generally in such a way that the attacker is left in a bad defensive position ,leaving the defender in a superior position to launch a counter. 3) Intercepting These types of blocks are used to stop the attack during its execution, either by jamming the attack( as in an ankle block against a front kick) , or by damaging the attacking limb ( for example striking the bicep of the arm of an incoming punch. That is the short version of it. Of course you get into the concepts of a strike being a block and a block being a strike. But the categories remain the same. IMHO blocking is reactive. Some of the above principles can of course be used on a pre-emptive basis but would then fall under another category such as checking or trapping. Mr. E2Me2 I like the drills you have shown . With the blocks and then showing 3 different follow ups. Those blocks are simple and yet highly effective. They can be taught in such a way that anyone regardless of age, size, or ability can learn them. Next week I hope to get a chance to film some more as well. And can add to our list... sifu shawn

Hello Sifu Shawn, Thank you for your assessment of these drills. I and my students use them regularly and find them effective and interesting. I would agree that blocking is “reactive”. It is often the best way for me to get into a position of advantage over my partner. I watch a lot of M.M.A. and professional fights on T.V. I was beginning to think that blocking as I know it was becoming a lost art form. It is good to see others practicing it on a serious level. Regards, MrE2Me2

I don't think that blocking would be practical in Ring fighting. Not the "classical" method of blocking anyway, jamming or letting your limbs absorb the blow seems to be more common. Blocking, being reactive, may be too slow in a more aggressive venue, such as the ring. Ring fighters would usually, presumbably, train a more aggressive attack orientated style, more pro-active, less reactive. Now perhaps I have mis-spoke here, I don't mean to say that traditional blocking methods are slow. If you spend the time to develope the skill you will be quite adept after a while. If you spend your time working on more aggressive striking methods and less time on blocking skills, well your blocking skills will suffer!

Cam, I don't think that blocking would be practical in Ring fighting. Not the "classical" method of blocking anyway, jamming or letting your limbs absorb the blow seems to be more common. I agree with you here. In the sense that they are not classical blocks but rather modified blocks. The style is different but they can still be categorized.The concept you are referring to would in my mind fall under the shielding block category (IMO) 1) Shielding: This consists of the more "basic" yet effective blocks that we generally see in kickboxing. The arm or leg is used to shield the body from a blow. The limb usually takes the brunt of the force, which is fine if you are conditioned. They are generally the easiest blocks to teach beginners due to the fact that most untrained people, when attacked, will have a "flinch" reflex and brings there arms up to cover the head. Leg blocks are taught to deal with low strikes, leaving the hands up to either counter or to continue blocking the head. I think this is probably the easiest form of blocking to learn, and also the quickest form of blocking to learn. Kick boxers generally use the shielding blocks. Impact taken by the blocking limb, also combined with bobbing and weaving tactics make it very effective and efficient. I do believe however that blocking is used in MMA fights to a degree. For example , If your opponent has you mounted, or you have him in the guard. When they start trying to land punches, I usually try to stop the attack at the shoulder or at the bicep. It is a lot shorter of movement then a traditional block, and therefore maybe does not look like a block but it still fall into the category of 3) Intercepting These types of blocks are used to stop the attack during its execution, either by jamming the attack( as in an ankle block against a front kick) , or by damaging the attacking limb ( for example striking the bicep of the arm of an incoming punch. However this is only my opinion. Gotta run. My oldest boy has a football game at Mcmahon stadium tonight in Calgary. Heck of an opportuniy for a group of 13 and 14 year olds to play in a real stadium. Apparantly they will actually be showing it up on the Jumbotron screen... sifu shawn

Hello Sifu Shawn, Thanks for the input about blocking. You are, after all, the voice of experience in the ring (and no sarcasm). Good Luck to your son and his team! Regards, MrE2Me2 To all, A basic punch block drill. Done slowly http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEmXDqeeQXc Done faster http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kN_nUpCbNCM The original Chinese Cross Block from Mo Kempo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8L84al7WXc Regards, MrE2Me2

To all, Here are two vids with blocking as the central theme. A prearranged parrying drill: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDJYlZ2zG0k Light free sparring: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JYfeCOToNc Regards, MrE2Me2

To all, Here are two vids of Jason practicing two slightly different versions of a passive draw. One: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3s-UgShBcNI Two: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LhX9ZSjUq8 Regards, MrE2Me2

I agree all have their place. It depends mostly on timing but generally (and this is a broad generalization) simultaneous block with counter is the most effective. I say most effective only because I find it is more difficult for the opponent to defend. There is one combination I noticed you didn't list and that is counter first then block. I'm not sure if you familiar with the concept but I'm thinking you must have seen it. There are several examples in Moh Pai. If it's new to you, you may be thinking why would you need to block if you are able to strike first? The answer to that is often the strike does not make contact fast enough to stop your opponents strike so you have to strike then block immediately after. I don't know how to describe it any better, but I'm thinking that most of you guys are familiar with the technique. I know grasshopper should be. As far as I know it is something that is fairly unique to Moh Pai, but I could be wrong.

Hello Current Student, You posted, “There is one combination I noticed you didn't list and that is counter first then block.” While I am familiar with this and use it regularly, I have not demonstrated it yet. I view it much like I view this, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JYfeCOToNc They are transitional techniques, to my way of thinking. You posted, “…often the strike does not make contact fast enough to stop your opponents strike so you have to strike then block immediately after.” Yes, that is exactly where I would use them. I do remember Wayne practicing them in skills class. You posted, “As far as I know it is something that is fairly unique to Moh Pai, but I could be wrong.” With all due respect, while I like Moh more than the other Martial Arts out there, I have found the concept of attack and then defend is prevalent outside of Moh. Granted, it isn’t a popular concept or a well received one but it is still there. As a matter of fact, at the last tournament I watched, they had weapons sparring. In every instance, the attacker would receive a counter attack. Often, he was not able to apply his defenses but he did try. There is also the concept in certain arts of “Mutual Slaying”. Where both guys attack and land effectively at the same time. This would be a perfect opportunity to attack (or fake an attack) and then block. I find it difficult to believe that Moh is the only art to practice this tactic. This is a very advanced tactic not matter how you cut it. But when it works, it works well. Regards, MrE2Me2

Hmm I don't really see an example of what I'm talking about there. Are you sure that's the example you meant to post? Looks like standard block strike or block block strike. There is one more block type that I missed before also, and that is block/strike simultaneous where the strike and block are integrated. I'm sure more of you maybe be familiar with this technique as shown in many applications of swinging punches, double punches, helmet crushers and butterfly punches.